last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7742
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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....I saw sumbody put in print what Albert wants. $30 mil/ten years....supposedly. Simply put Dewitt should have got him signed last year before all the other stupid mlb contract signings came to light. (see A Rod amongst others). Major FU there.
Got two questions....one, should they sign him and two....are they going to sign him?
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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griffin
administrator
Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 9625
Loc: the most dangerous city in Ame...
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Hell no they shouldn't sign him.....for chrissakes, I can put a competitive team on the field for 30 million a year. 
griffin
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"The Irish are one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." - Sigmund Freud
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halfasmuch
action hero
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4349
Loc: Upper Oakville
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Griffin, it already has been done.. its called Tampa Bay...
or for a little more $$$ and a little less results..."HomeofToto" City....
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The difference between genius and stupidity
is that genius has its limits.
-Albert Einstein
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6196
Loc: Missouri
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If that is really what he wants ... NO WAY!!! 
$30 mil for 5 years, maybe. You can't cripple the organization for the last 5 years of his deal. It just doesn't make sense. There is little doubt that the last ten years will prove to be better than the next ten. Paying a 40+ year-old $30 mil for his 19th or 20th year in the league would be insane! While he has been generally durable, his body is already showing signs of aging. How is that going to play out over the next several years?
I'd love to see him in a Cardinals uniform, for the rest of his career but not at the expense of watching losing teams for 5 or 6 years. Get a list of the teams that he will accept for a trade and gte the best deal you can get for him.
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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They had a chance last year to lock up Albert and got into a bidding war with themselves to sign Matt "A Rock is Smarter" Holliday. TweetleDeWitt has no wits. Perhaps the greatest player to ever put on a baseball uniform and we are on the verge of losing him.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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Paul Dallas
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1189
Loc: the corner of Bedlam & Squalor
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I'm the opposite. If we sign him for that, I'm done with the Cardinals. We'll be a team with one fat cat surrounded by a bunch of triple-a tryouts.
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6196
Loc: Missouri
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Quote:
H2ODOG said:
If this organization doesn't sign Pujols I am done with em. They had a chance last year to lock up Albert and got into a bidding war with themselves to sign Matt "A Rock is Smarter" Holliday. TweetleDeWitt has no wits. Perhaps the greatest player to ever put on a baseball uniform and we are on the verge of losing him.
I am a life long Cardinals fan, and say piss on the organization if they let Albert slip away to another team.
Jeff, there is not one chance in hell that #5 was going to sign with the Cardinals for any less last year. He wants 2 things: A long term deal that takes him to the likely end of his career and to be the highest paid player in baseball. It is pure inasnity to think those two goals can be accomplished by any other organizations than the richest 4 or 5 (Yanks, Sox, Dogers, ect...) in the league.
The reality is the Cardinals are in a lose/lose position. Unless Albert will take less or a shorter term, there is no chance the Cardinals can sign him and be a compeditive, blanced team for the next 10 years. Having one player eat up 20% - 30% of your payroll is just bad business. If they sign him, this team had better win in the next 2-3 years. Otherwise, it is over. If they don't sign him, the Albert worshipers will go bananas and cry about how the ownership blew it and/or doesn't care.
So, if you're the GM what do you pick?: Door #1 that cripples the team for years and years. Door #2 that has a percentage of fans vowing to jump off buildings and never watch another baseball game as long as they live.
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Who would you rather have seen the Cardinals try to sign last season......Matt Holliday for $120 million over 7 years or Albert for $20-25 million for the same length of time? I know what I would have rather seen.
Albert Pujols has been one of the MOST UNDERPAID players in baseball for his numbers the past few years. He deserves to get paid. The Cardinals bring in 3 million folks a year to sell beer, nachos, T-shirts, and soda's to. #5 is the reason that 3 million folks drag their ass to the ballpark.
And you assume Albert won't put up good numbers his final 10 years???? Hell, I will take 7 more years of Albert and his numbers and then let him retire. I don't see Albert playing if he is not competative. Even 5 years of the regular Albert and 2 shitty years.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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And who exactly is this cast of Triple A players the Cards will have on the field???? Molina is on for 2 more seasons....and will more than likely be a Cardinal for life. He loves it here, and if Pujols stays a Cardinal so will Yadie. Wainwright has club options until 2013. Holliday is on until 2017. Carpenter has a club option up in 2012....of course, some on here say he wasn't worth keeping around either. :rollinmyeyes: Rasmus is a left handed bat that would be welcome in most lineups around the league. Freese showed great potential when he wasn't hurt, and now Theriot should be a solid addition to the lineup in the infield.
Albert Pujols is the face of the St. Louis Cardinals franchise. How do you not pay the guy. He gave a hometown discount the first go around to stay. He showed everyone what he is worth in those years. The Free Agency market is drooling at the prospect of having Albert out there to be picked up. Pay the man what he is worth.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Pujols has played ten seasons, and has NEVER hit less than 32 HRs and driven in less than 103 runs. In his WORST season, he batted .312. He is the absolute definition of consistent, and he’s got the hardware to prove it. Pujols is a 3-time MVP, 6-time Silver Slugger, and 2-time Gold Glover. He has never finished worse than 9th in the MVP voting during his ten year career. FOUR 2nd place finishes, of which 2 were to Bonds and one to the strikeout king of Ryan Howard. He is averaging 155 games a season. He has finished 1st in runs 5 of the last 6 years
Hell......since his rookie year he has finished in the top 5 in almost EVERY OFFENSIVE category year in and out. At $14 million a year for that kinda output in today's market is a freaking steal. Sign the man....pay him the money.
Active Career stats
.331 Batting Average 1st
.426 On-Base % 1st
.624 Slugging % 1st
1.050 OB%+ SLugging 1st
408 HR 9th
236 Int. Walks 3rd
One more thing to add. The Cardinals were 4th in Attendance last season and 16th in Payroll. They have been 4th or better in attendence every year since 2005 They have averaged well over 3 million fans a year since #5 has been wearing a uniform.....actually closer to 3.4 million each year since 2005.
The existing debt on Busch Stadium only requires about $15.9M a year to service, and the team is managing that just fine. According to the Cardinals section of the same Forbes article, the Cardinals’ 2009 total revenue was $195M with an operating income of $12.8M and gate receipts of $94M. Average ticket price for 2009 at Busch Stadium? $29. The Cardinals had a paid attendance of 3.301 million, so it’s likely that they pushed gate receipts closer to $96M for 2010.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6196
Loc: Missouri
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Quote:
H2ODOG said:
Who would you rather have seen the Cardinals try to sign last season......Matt Holliday for $120 million over 7 years or Albert for $20-25 million for the same length of time? I know what I would have rather seen.
You base your entire argument on a false premise and a position the vast majority of owners and GM's will never embrace (nor should they).
Your false premise is that Pujols would have signed a deal for $20-$25 million for any length of time. 7 years at $20-$25 mil is bordering on comical. Did you see the other signings last year? Do you think Pujols is on the same page as Ryan Howard? There is no chance, zero, zip, nada that he signs last year this year or next year for any less than $26-28 million for a long term deal. And if it is shorter than 6 or 7 years, it will have to be or would have had to be $30+. I am pretty confident that the Cardinals would have jumped all over and extension last year for $20 - $25 million over 7 years. It wasn't a possibility, I'd bet my house on that reality.
Your position of paying player for what he did and not what he will do for you is just not going to happen. If he was underpaid, he should fire his agent and get one that can get him what he should be paid. It is not the responsibility of a club (and the fans by default) to pay for the services already rendered. The ONLY thing the Cardinals should be considering is what he is worth for the next____(insert length of extension here)years. That formula is certainly a combination of play on the field, as well as value to the team is other ways (butts in the seats, merchandise, PR, etc.).
You also presume he will just quit when he isn't worth the $30 mil he's going to get paid. Really? The same guy that is willing to hold his team and the fans that adore him hostage for all the cash he can pocket is going to just walk away from that cash? Yeah riiiiiiiight.
I too hope they sign him and I'll be disappointed if it doesn't happen. But you have to be a realist and that reality as that this is a 50/50 proposition at best. IF he doesn't, I'll still be a Cards fan. This franchise will still put 3 million fans in the seats and life will go on. IF they do sign him, we'll all be happier ... as long as their winning...
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7742
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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Shouldn't do it but I assume the $$ number is about right but would certainly think the length is either negotiable or if left at ten with some performance attachments. If I know Albert no one will have to tell him when he's done. He will be a year ahead of that.
I don't have the time to look it up but since last year when the Cards COULD have signed him I think A-Rod signed off on 10 yr/ 275 mil and the kid from the Lou for Philly (Ryan) is getting around 27 mil per year. Those two signings AND others has cost the Cards big time as they dawdled around with this.
Look at it this way...if they land him for the talked about price and can get a 7 or 8 year deal then he will average out at 20 mil per year or so. As outrageous as that is Arod will average 25+mil at least...so even considering Yankee value it can be justified by todays salary standards. His production has been HOF stuff from day one. Very good glove. Excellent character. Team leader guy.
The Cardinals tradition is to pay up and keep these guys and put them on the stadium wall when they retire. That is what needs to happen here. I still remember Carlton walking away over 25k or something some 40 years ago. Let me tell you there was no principle worth that stupid move.
Lastly, If AP wasn't a Cardinal all these years and he was available on the free agent market I'd be the first to understand passing on him....but this is not the case....we stole him in the draft and we've been stealing from him since.......relatively that is....and if you're a fan and should still be wondering what this guys value is then look no further than watching him batting third and parked at first base next year................................................in a cubs uniform.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Gil Meche just walked away from $12.4 million guaranteed money.
just sayin
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Andy.......My entire argument.....negro please. Had they wanted to sign Albert last year they could have. I NEVER said he would have signed for less money last season either. Perhaps you should read what I'm writing. And Ryan Howard signed his extention in April.....well after spring training started, which is how long they had to work on the deal. Had they wanted to work on his contract last year they could have. They chose to put it off, and once again Albert puts up CAREER numbers like he does every season. His stock only went up after the 2010 season.
DeWitt and company got into a biddin war with NO ONE over Matt Holliday.
The same guy "holding his team and fans hostage" is the same guy who led the Cardinals to the post season 6 of his 9 seasons. He wants paid for his value to the team. I guess if you worked your ass off Andy and make your company a Millions and show up day in and out to work and don't biatch about it....you shouldn't get paid either??? Pay the man what he is worth.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7742
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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Post deleted by last_stand
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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LS.....Ryan Howard doesn't make $25 million a year until 2014. He makes $19 million this year,$20 million in 2012-13, and $25 million in 2014-2016
Had the Cardinals acted early before spring Training started, Albert I think could have been gotten for aroudnd $25 million a year + bonus money. Instead.....Ryan Howard helped set the contract ceiling for #5 when it could have been the other way around.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Andy.....my point about Albert gettin a Home town discount is not his agents fault. He signed to stay here, because he wanted to play here. Nor should we fault the owners or fans. He took a cut in pay to stay in STL. The Players Union didn't like what he did AT ALL. He also made it crystal clear, that his next contract WOULD NOT have a hometown discount......ie, pay me what I'm worth. Ownership has known for years that they were gonna have to pony up money for Albert. This isn't anything new for them to think about
Considering his numbers the past 9 years, I'd say its well worth paying him $25-30 Million. His numbers say it all. Hell.....who do you get to replace him. Spend $25-30 million on the open market and see what ya get. Someone else's trash. There won't be 3 other players up in 2012 Free Agency that could carry Albert's jock strap, let alone put up his production numbers.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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IIFID
Bond....Timmy Bond
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 8067
Loc: Nipawin, Saskatchewan
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"..I'd say its well worth paying him $25-30 million a year."
Don't get me wrong. I like Albert, but I don't think ANYONE playing a frying game is worth that.. but that is just me.
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Thought for the day; “It’s impossible to think outside of the box when all you do is think about getting inside of the box.”
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Quote:
IIFID said:
"..I'd say its well worth paying him $25-30 million a year."
Don't get me wrong. I like Albert, but I don't think ANYONE playing a frying game is worth that.. but that is just me.
If you could hit a baseball like Albert could, hit a golf ball like Tiger Woods, or throw a pass like Tom Brady......or play hockey like Sid Crosby........I bet you would have a diff. outlook on it.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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IIFID
Bond....Timmy Bond
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 8067
Loc: Nipawin, Saskatchewan
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But I don't. However I am like the 98% of people who work and scrape to get by. So the players egos, where it is most important to be the highest paid at anything that one does, bothers me. Is it really necessary for someone to make $30 mil per year? Or $20 or $10 for that matter? I think it's kind of obscene actually. And because the salaries continue to go up and up it therefore makes the tickets, concessions, parking etc.. all go up and up as well making it difficult, if not impossible, for many families to go out and enjoy the things that most of us did when we were younger.
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Thought for the day; “It’s impossible to think outside of the box when all you do is think about getting inside of the box.”
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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I don't fault the players one bit for trying to get what they can get. The owners are making hundreds of millions....so why not get all you can get. The same for the University's. College athletes on a full scholarship are allowed to make I think $2500 a year at a job. How is that enough to pay for gas for a vehicle, dates, regular out to eat days, etc.......all while a Univeristy rakes in millions off their hard work. Yes the kids get a free education, but that doesnt' allow them to live outside of their school life.
I know if I could hit .300 a year for 9 straight season in the Major Leagues, I'd be asking to get paid too. We all would. If you are the best at what you do, you should get paid.....doesn't matter if its a police officer, a teacher, a computer nerd who built Apple from the ground up, or a baseball player. I can't hate a guy for trying to get all he can get.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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triton
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 778
Loc: ??????????????
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Do we even know how old Albert is? Or anyone for that fact. All of this has been blown out of proportion because of the Phillies signing ryan howard for way too much.
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Roger Clemen's wife's personal trainer
Edited by triton (01/31/11 08:08 PM)
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griffin
administrator
Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 9625
Loc: the most dangerous city in Ame...
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Quote:
H2ODOG said:
#5 is the reason that 3 million folks drag their ass to the ballpark.
BULLCHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This town has always put butts in the seats....and we'll survive Jesus Pujols too.
30 mil a year for 10 years????
Buh Bye. 
griffin
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"The Irish are one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." - Sigmund Freud
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Yes, the fans have always supported the team......but the amount of support goes with the product on the field and the players on the field. St. Louis is usually in the top 4 in attendance every year, but it wasn't until the NL Championship team in 87' that we broke 3 million fans....and then again in 89'. In the mid 90's a horrible team was on the field and the attendance showed. Hell in 95' we were 7th in the National League. You gotta go back to the shitty 70's before you see attendance figures like that.
When Big Mac was signed the attendance skyrocketted. We broke the 3 million mark and only fell below it in 2003...when once again we had an average team. Since mid season in 1997 the fans have had a "franchise player" Big Mac's moon shots put folks in the seats and kept em there until 2001 when Pujols showed up.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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And if Bill DeWitt Jr. lets Albert go to another team, he can follow in his father's footsteps for doing stupid chit.....afterall, Daddy Dumbwitt traded Frank Robinson in 65' because he was an "old 30" Of course in 1966 Frank won the MVP and won the triple crown,and played 6-7 more great years and was a first ballot HOF'er.
By all means don't sign the best player in Baseball. That way we can be the Boston Red Sox of the 21st Century.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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