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lying_in_wait
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Building a .410 reloader
      #173096 - 01/12/09 12:06 PM

Anyone ever build your own shotshell reloader or convert an existing one to a different gauge that was not available for that particular machine? After spending almost $14 for a box of 3" .410 the other day I decided it was finally time to start doing what I've been puting off for years - reload .410

I know that used MEC Jr's in .410 are not too hard to find and are usually resonable, but to be honest I just don't have the space to dedicate for a progressive press. I really like the simplicity of the old Lee Loader hand die (wack with a hammer kind) but they don't make the shotshell version anymore and finding one in .410 is rare and costly. I saw one go for $110 on ebay recently, plus I would have to find two of them if I wanted to do both 2 1/2" & 3". I also have always admired the Lee Load All (almost talked myself into buying one numerous time over the years), but they never made them in .410 and I'm not quite sure why.

I've come to the conclusion that if I'm gonna keep it simple and cheap I'm gonna have to either make my own or try to convert something. So the other day I put pen to paper and came up with a couple of different variations of the Lee Loader that I could easily build on my lathe. One version has me modifying the body of an existing Lee Loader in .444 Marlin, then building a wad seater and rammer. Since the threaded body is adjustable for bullet seating depth, I could use this feature to set the die up for both 2 1/2" and 3" shells. The other (and simpler) version has me building a one piece body from DOM tube bored to a slip fit on all but the last 1/4" with a press fit there for sizing. This version would be about an inch longer than a spent 3" hull and would have two rammers, one for 2 1/2" and one for 3". Both versions would utilize the same type of de capping and charging chamber used on the Lee Loader and would use a spindex crimp starter by hand. I already have everything needed to build version two in my scrap boxes right now and the spindex came in the mail Saturday so I will probably build one this week.

I was at a gun show yesterday and came across an older 20 ga. Load All that was too tempting to pass up for 20 bones. It is the old style with a metal base and isn't missing any bushings and ain't rusted or cracked anywhere. After taking it apart and thinking it about it for awhile I'm fairly certain I can construct a whole new carrier from scratch that will do .410 I've got all the stations pretty well figured out. I'll have to make a smaller case rim holder at the final crimp stage and new powder and shot bushing for the charge bar and a sizing bushing. All of this should be easily accomplishied with my lathe and I already have a good assortment of brass round bar and cold roll that I can make the bushings with. The idea is that I won't be making and permanent mods to the existing press if it doesn't work out I still have a functional loader. And if it does work I can still change out the carriers and load both sizes.

Any thoughts good or bad..........wasting my time??? Know anyone who's tried it before, did it work out?

--------------------
Shawn Wheaton
Missouri Waterfowl Association
Westside Chapter Chairman



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Burrhead
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Re: Building a .410 reloader [Re: lying_in_wait]
      #173105 - 01/12/09 12:54 PM

Shawn - You are correct on the price of factory .410's.

I never even considered trying to make my own. I'd been watching some MEC 600 Jr's in .410 on ebay and they've been going for $130 plus, plus shipping. Brand new from Midway they're $139.00!

I'm now gonna buy a set of .410 dies for my new MEC that you guys got me and I'll be set.

If you're interested, I've got an old MEC 600 12ga loader that needs some work. I traded Fast Eddie some loads for it and I'd be willing to give it to you if you wanted to get a set of dies (and a couple of other things) for it. It might save you some headaches...

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fastman
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Re: Building a .410 reloader [Re: Burrhead]
      #173109 - 01/12/09 01:30 PM


Dat mofo was bout bran new when it left me hands
W T F dude(bh)..did ya do????...Drag the sumbiatch bee hiandah troll car!!!!!!!

just saying



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"A man will heedlessly charge a cannon, but puke at the sight of 6 inches of steel." Jim Bowie

Edited by fastman (01/12/09 01:31 PM)


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fastman
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Re: Building a .410 reloader [Re: fastman]
      #173110 - 01/12/09 01:33 PM

on ah tread steal.....I've got 3" superx/xx hulls for trade r free!!!!!!!!



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"A man will heedlessly charge a cannon, but puke at the sight of 6 inches of steel." Jim Bowie


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FowlMouthModerator
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Re: Building a .410 reloader [Re: fastman]
      #173113 - 01/12/09 01:41 PM

.410......what's wrong sweetie, does a 12 ga kick too much for you?

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lying_in_wait
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Re: Building a .410 reloader [Re: FowlMouth]
      #173139 - 01/12/09 04:52 PM

Yes makes me feel like I've been kicked in my gash.

Actually it's more of a nostalgic thing for me. The first gun I ever owned was a single shot Winchester 370 youth .410 Owned it even before I owned a BB gun. It was given to me at the age of 7 by a police officer after the big flood of '77. It had been one of several guns that been buried in mud and sand when his house was inundated by Rock Creek. Lots of memories attached to that gun. Like sitting out in the garage, just Dad and me, cleaning the mud out of the barrel and sanding down and refinishing the stock with Tru Oil, shooting clays with my Dad, brother, uncle and cousin at the old Pioneer gun club in Knobtown, crouching in a makeshift grass duck blind with it the first time I got to carry a "real" gun on a duck hunt. I remember the first time I ever shot it, I was such a little squirt that even though it was a youth model I couldn't quite reach the trigger so I tucked it in my arm pit. I fired that first shot and it jumped up and bloodied my nose. I still own it and it's the gun that holds the most sentiment to me. I usually put a box or two through it every year and try to rabbit hunt with it every now and again. My nephew Devin got to shoot it a couple of times at Dovestock and it was his first ever experience with shooting. He got his very own .410 for Christmas this year and lately my brother & I have been talking about trying to take him out shooting as much as we used to get to go when we were his age.

--------------------
Shawn Wheaton
Missouri Waterfowl Association
Westside Chapter Chairman



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lying_in_wait
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Re: Building a .410 reloader [Re: lying_in_wait]
      #173141 - 01/12/09 05:12 PM

Kevin, thanks for the offer but weren't you gonna set that up as a dedicated .410 loader? I wouldn't want to deprive ya of that. I really appreciate it but I think I'll see if this works out first because I really just don't have a place to set it up. Two lathes and a drill press pretty well take up my entire work bench. Hand dies will fit in my loading box and the Load All will fit in a drawer.

--------------------
Shawn Wheaton
Missouri Waterfowl Association
Westside Chapter Chairman



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old lodge skins
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Re: Building a .410 reloader [Re: lying_in_wait]
      #173227 - 01/13/09 07:54 AM

I bought the two separate Lee Loaders in 410, 2 1/2" and 3" off eBay some years back. I always thought somebody should make dies for a pistol/rifle reloading press for 410 shot shells.

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Burrhead
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Re: Building a .410 reloader [Re: fastman]
      #173229 - 01/13/09 08:03 AM

Quote:

fastman said:
on ah tread steal.....I've got 3" superx/xx hulls for trade r free!!!!!!!!






.410's? If they are, we can work something out. If they're 12's, we can still work something out.

Shawn - I still may set the older loader up for dedicated .410, just haven't decided yet. It would make it much easier that way.

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FowlMouthModerator
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Re: Building a .410 reloader [Re: Burrhead]
      #173249 - 01/13/09 10:25 AM

can you get the parts to adapt a MEC 12 ga loader to .410? I'm not familiar with converting them but ableammo.com has .410 parts for about $65

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Burrhead
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Re: Building a .410 reloader [Re: FowlMouth]
      #173258 - 01/13/09 12:57 PM

Deano - Yep. Sure can.

I just did some checking and I'm probably gonna send this older loader back to MEC and have them refurbish it and set it up for .410

That way I won't have to change die sets out.

Sorry for the thread-jack LIW.

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Hellbender
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Re: Building a .410 reloader [Re: Burrhead]
      #173347 - 01/14/09 10:31 AM

Maybe a hand loader, there used to be several makers. Maybe you could turn one of them up.

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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


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lying_in_wait
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Re: Building a .410 reloader [Re: Hellbender]
      #173407 - 01/14/09 10:57 PM

Well I built the hand loader and it seems to work. I'll try to take some pics later but so far I have a de-capper and shell chamber similar to the Lee Loader, a priming rod/wad seater, a hull conditioning tool and a roll crimper.

My initial thought was to build a die that would re size the brass when ya tap the spent hull in just like the Lee Loader. After filling the hull it would be removed and a spindex crimp started would be pressed over it. Then it would go back in the die and crimp closer would be rammed down the end. Still may build that version too.

I sort of got side tracked on the idea of roll crimping rather than 6 point, but I was able to find a bit of info and some pics of homemade roll crimpers on a shooting website, so off to the shop I went. An hour later I had a neat looking little brass tool, the only question is would it work. I stuck it in the drill press and fired it up. Grabbed a handful of assorted hulls that I scrounged at the range to practice with and gave it a whirl. First try, perfect roll crimp! Second try, same thing. I did some Federal hulls and some Remington hulls and they came out just as good as the factory rolls. Although the skived ends rolled nicely, if I trimmed off the folds they rolled even easier and looked better.

--------------------
Shawn Wheaton
Missouri Waterfowl Association
Westside Chapter Chairman



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lying_in_wait
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Pics of my hand set [Re: lying_in_wait]
      #173503 - 01/15/09 10:06 PM

Heres the .410 hand load set I built.



In the back is the de-capping tool, then the priming rod/wad seater. In front of that is the shell chamber. To the right is my miniature version of a spin doctor hull conditioning tool. Behind that is my roll crimper, both of these tools are used in a drill.



First put hull in shell chamber and use de-capping tool to drive spent primer out (no, it doesn't require a hammer).



Seat a new primer with the priming tool.



Add charge, seat wad and add shot.



Close with the roll crimper in drill press.



My crimp on the left, factory crimp on the right.



Whole process takes less than a minute.

--------------------
Shawn Wheaton
Missouri Waterfowl Association
Westside Chapter Chairman



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Burrhead
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Re: Pics of my hand set [Re: lying_in_wait]
      #173514 - 01/16/09 05:42 AM

Nice Shawn!

Are you not resizing the brass/head? Is there any problem with chambering?

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lying_in_wait
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Re: Pics of my hand set [Re: Burrhead]
      #173533 - 01/16/09 08:32 AM

No this method does not re-size the brass. The ones that were fired from my gun still chamber and eject with no resistance, I did not try to chamber any of the hulls that I scrounged from the range however. I don't know yet if they will still fit after they are fired a second time. However, I have already built a sizing bushing from cold roll steel to use with the Lee Load All that I'm trying to convert and it squeezes them right back into tolorance. I don't really know since I don't have any experience with shot shell loading, but I'm thinking that the cases may last a bit longer if I only size when they stop fitting well.

--------------------
Shawn Wheaton
Missouri Waterfowl Association
Westside Chapter Chairman



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Burrhead
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Re: Pics of my hand set [Re: lying_in_wait]
      #173538 - 01/16/09 09:18 AM

You should be fine with cases fired in your gun, but I was curious about cases you might have picked up.

As far as lasting longer, case mouths are the weak point and you will probably split/tear them before you run into problems with the bases. I could be wrong on not resizing though. I resize everything, mainly because I want easy loading and extraction of fired cases.

If a loaded round will not drop easily and fully into your chamber, it's out of spec.

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Burrhead
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Re: Pics of my hand set [Re: Burrhead]
      #173920 - 01/21/09 07:07 AM

So... how do they shoot?

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lying_in_wait
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Re: Pics of my hand set [Re: Burrhead]
      #173939 - 01/21/09 09:40 AM

Well so far I've only disassembled some factory rounds and reloaded the components into spent hulls of the same manufacture. I have not shot them but don't expect them to be any different than factory ammo because they are. Other than that I have just been filling cases with shot only so I can hone my roll crimping technique.

I've got some shot and powder on hand and have some hulls and three kinds of wads on order. While I'm waiting I've been studying load data. I know that many .410 recipes call for H110 but I am going to try some Lil'Gun recipes simply because I already have plenty of it on hand (it's what I use in my .22 Hornet). Hopefully I'll have some loads ready to test in a couple of weeks.

In the mean time I have started converting the Lee Load All to .410. I have already fabricated a new carrier that fits nicely and cycles smoothly. I've got the sizing bushing made also. I still need to turn the components of each station on my lathe and then fabricate new shot and powder bushings. I think it will work, but we'll see I guess.

--------------------
Shawn Wheaton
Missouri Waterfowl Association
Westside Chapter Chairman



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lying_in_wait
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Re: Pics of my hand set [Re: lying_in_wait]
      #174564 - 01/27/09 03:36 PM

Well 200 new pre-primed Fiocchi hulls, 750 wads and 500 over shot cards showed up today. Gonna load three recipes tonight and should be able to test em on Sat.

--------------------
Shawn Wheaton
Missouri Waterfowl Association
Westside Chapter Chairman



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