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H2ODOG said:
Heyward gone. Can't say I'll miss him. His glove was great but his bat hasn't lived up to the hype since he came into the big leagues. He was supposed to be a .300+ hitter, 30 HR's, 100 rbi, and 40+ SB a year guy. Instead he is a .260 hitter who can't hit the high fastball people love to feed him. Hell, we got that with Phambimo with a lot less money Time to chase Chris Davis or Gordon from KC. That would make the entire west side throw up in their mouth seeing him in a STL uniform.

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last_stand said:

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H2ODOG said:
Heyward gone. Can't say I'll miss him. His glove was great but his bat hasn't lived up to the hype since he came into the big leagues. He was supposed to be a .300+ hitter, 30 HR's, 100 rbi, and 40+ SB a year guy. Instead he is a .260 hitter who can't hit the high fastball people love to feed him. Hell, we got that with Phambimo with a lot less money Time to chase Chris Davis or Gordon from KC. That would make the entire west side throw up in their mouth seeing him in a STL uniform.

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He batted .293 in 2015.

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sptsman said:
Last year at this time both the Nationals and Padres had "won" the off-season and were going to have to duke it out in the NLCS to see who would claim the WS trophy. See how that worked out?

Come August, the Cards will be right in the thick of it, possibly even with the Division lead. The Cubs have spent a lot of money and have a darn good team on paper. But how many teams have been declared "the team to beat" in the off-season and don't even make the playoffs? The DeWitt/Mozeliak combo has been pretty good the last several years. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt...

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last_stand said:
If that interview is their real plan and not some kind of ruse to get another big bat for a position player then good luck with that Mo. I am skeptical because it makes little sense.

How is it if you are willing to spend 200 million on one of two players and then since you don't get either you shut down your big FA money? When in fact you need it more than ever? When your franchise is the most profitable in all of baseball?

And I'm not talking for the sake of it. This team needs to make some moves for more power and more pitching. There are still a FEW viable guys out there. Buerhle would be a good addition. But how about Gordon? Holiday should not be in left field, he gets hurt all the time and he is terrible with his defense. Put him at first base and bring a Gordon on the team.

Cards barely played 500 ball after the all star break. We all saw the post season. So take that team and add another year of wear and lose 3 key players and hope for the best? That's plan B??

As for the cubs, not sure how you could be set up any better. And they are not done yet either. Hope it all blows up cause so far that appears to be Mo's plan.

And don't forget the Pirates. I guess they have to blow up too.

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Let me get this straight.....you want a guy with an IQ slightly higher than Forrest Gump, who has played exactly 1614 games at the MLB level, and ALL of them at LF........and now you want dude to play first base. He is too old and slow to learn that position. LF is tough enough for him. Ball hit to you. Chase ball down. Throw ball to infielder. I don't think Holliday is the dumbest guy in baseball, but I wonder who ties his shoes between innings. Holliday isn't going to play another position.

Then you want to go after Alex Gordon.......why? You get a guy who misses more time than Holliday, with a few less years on him, so he can play the outfield. Gordon can at least play the infield and has done it at the MLB level. Holliday hasn't played the infield since he was 8. If you want to go after a first baseman, go get one. Chris Davis is available. Go big or stay at home. Why get a half ass option. Get the best available.

And if you want an outfielder, go get Gonzalez in Colorado. Trade Adams, get Chris Davis and you trade one LH batter for a way better LH batter at first. Pick up Gonzalez from CO for another LH dude, and you get a guy who can hit and play any OF position. Alex Gordon is not the answer. He is a slower version of Heyward.

Perhaps you should check your stats on the 2nd half of the season also. Cards were 56-33 in the first half. An unbelievable pace. 2nd half they finished 44-29. 15 games above .500. It was a .603 pace in case you were wondering.

Take the team, add another year of wear, and lose 3 key players. The damn off season isn't over Francis......RELAX. Lynn is gone and Lackey is gone. Pick up Buerhle and that solves the old guy who eats up innings issue of Lackey. Find one more solid guy to give you innings and 10-15 wins. That replaces Lynn. Heyward is solved with the outfield we have. We get way more pop in our bats without him in the lineup. Piscotty and Grichuk aren't slow old dudes and hit with more pop than Alex Gordon for way less money. They aren't GG guys, but they aren't a liability out there either. OF guys have never been an issue in STL. They grow them on trees at the AAA level.

The Cubs are spending their way to win a championship. Lets see if Madden can make all of it work out. He has a ton of egos to deal with and are the favorites to win it all. Let some of his key guys go down and see how long it takes to get in the hot seat if he isn't in first place at the AS break.

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last_stand said:
I didn't know Gonzalez was a free agent. So now you're trading for him, not so simple.

You want Holiday in left over Gordon have at it. So does Matheney. Holiday has one more year left and he's gone. He can't play first any worse than he does left imo. Gordon or Upton coming on fills in that position nicely if you ask me.... for half the money of Heyward and the next few years forward.

I have no problem with counting on Piscotty and Grichuk, but yes, they are not proven top half players....yet. There is risk.

As for Davis, Mo has supposedly ruled that out. Or so he says.

Anyway, according to Mo NONE of this is happening aside from obtaining a pitcher and non budget busting position players.

I'll wait and see where it all goes when the dust settles. I still say he goes for one big position player.

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last_stand said:
Get Holiday on first base.

I don't care how.

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I don't know what they put in your eggnog but putting "Hands of Stone and Bad Back" Holiday at first??????

Merry Christmas Ho Ho Ho

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last_stand said:
Get Holiday on first base.

I don't care how.

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You want a guy who has played 12 years at LF to suddenly move to 1st.......because he has committed 21 errors in 7 year. You really are a special kind of stupid. Probably dumber than Holliday. That dude can't learn a new position. He is dumb as your post. See ball. Run to ball. Throw ball back to dirt track looking thing. We have 2 more years with him in the OF before he retires. Relax Francis. It's not like he makes 15 errors a year out there and hits like Kozma.

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DADAKOTA said:
Cards looking at a 3rd place finish and maybe a wild card slot.

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sptsman said:
...they can give key players and little more rest this year and not have a worn-out team come playoff time.

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They had plenty of rest last year during the playoffs....and the year before Just sayin!

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DADAKOTA said:
Sorry homer. Been a Cards fan as long as I can remember. Just stating facts. Do like to see the Royals do well, but when the two meet I am backing the Cards.

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H2ODOG said:

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last_stand said:
Get Holiday on first base.

I don't care how.

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You want a guy who has played 12 years at LF to suddenly move to 1st.......because he has committed 21 errors in 7 year. You really are a special kind of stupid. Probably dumber than Holliday. That dude can't learn a new position. He is dumb as your post. See ball. Run to ball. Throw ball back to dirt track looking thing. We have 2 more years with him in the OF before he retires. Relax Francis. It's not like he makes 15 errors a year out there and hits like Kozma.

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dabs said:

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sptsman said:
...they can give key players and little more rest this year and not have a worn-out team come playoff time.

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They had plenty of rest last year during the playoffs....and the year before Just sayin!

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Well played , sir , well played!

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dabs said:

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sptsman said:
...they can give key players and little more rest this year and not have a worn-out team come playoff time.

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They had plenty of rest last year during the playoffs....and the year before Just sayin!

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last_stand said:

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H2ODOG said:

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last_stand said:
Get Holiday on first base.

I don't care how.

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You want a guy who has played 12 years at LF to suddenly move to 1st.......because he has committed 21 errors in 7 year. You really are a special kind of stupid. Probably dumber than Holliday. That dude can't learn a new position. He is dumb as your post. See ball. Run to ball. Throw ball back to dirt track looking thing. We have 2 more years with him in the OF before he retires. Relax Francis. It's not like he makes 15 errors a year out there and hits like Kozma.

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Gee dawg, what happened here?


http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/...a964959da4.html

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Lookin at the picture in the article, he looks like a 10 year old learning first base. I work with Holliday's HS coach. Matt got the physical tools. His brother Josh got the smarts. Matt isn't smart enough to learn a new position at 36. Hell he wasn't smart enough to learn one at 26. Holliday will be in LF come opening day.

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sptsman said:

Looking forward to Sunday's opener against the Pirates. Of course with the forecast of 70, I may have to watch it on DVR. A golf course will be calling my name...

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Hell, you don't have to wait until Sunday...I drove by a golf course this morning that was calling your name. I wasn't sure I actually heard it say "Andy" so I stopped and listened...sure enough, I heard this:

"Andy!! Andy!! You don't know chit about hockey!"

griffin

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fastman said:
& then the lil voice ssid..." Andy.fastman could give tha 2 aside & still beat ya 3 & 2....if his back was ok "

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Packing a 14-15 handicap, that would not be difficult...

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Bubba said:
Hey somebody say something....It will be alright.

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DADAKOTA said:
Cards are 1-5 against good teams and have beaten up on the doormats. Sure hope they are better than I think they are.

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DADAKOTA said:
Cards are 1-5 against good teams and have beaten up on the doormats. Sure hope they are better than I think they are.

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H2ODOG said:

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DADAKOTA said:
Cards are 1-5 against good teams and have beaten up on the doormats. Sure hope they are better than I think they are.

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Is this when the Bandwagon folks start to climb off, or do they wait until they have actually played into May?? Just curious as to what to do. The westsiders seems to know more about the bandwagon deal than I do.

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last_stand said:

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H2ODOG said:

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DADAKOTA said:
Cards are 1-5 against good teams and have beaten up on the doormats. Sure hope they are better than I think they are.

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Is this when the Bandwagon folks start to climb off, or do they wait until they have actually played into May?? Just curious as to what to do. The westsiders seems to know more about the bandwagon deal than I do.

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bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.............ain't that the truth.

I don't pay attention until the last blue puck has dropped. I'm hoping that's later than usual this year.

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Mel said:

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last_stand said:

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H2ODOG said:

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DADAKOTA said:
Cards are 1-5 against good teams and have beaten up on the doormats. Sure hope they are better than I think they are.

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Is this when the Bandwagon folks start to climb off, or do they wait until they have actually played into May?? Just curious as to what to do. The westsiders seems to know more about the bandwagon deal than I do.

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bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.............ain't that the truth.

I don't pay attention until the last blue puck has dropped. I'm hoping that's later than usual this year.

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You all talking about Leeo as the wagon jumper?

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I got a kick out of this.. Lackey will fold up like a cheap chair and implode before this year is over.. He ain't got the stuff he used to have and it will show late in the year, especially with all the pressure that comes with playing for a perennial loser..
Forkin mouth breather..

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/i...iego-padres-win

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CHICAGO -- Chicago Cubs pitcher John Lackey was apparently upset with the way San Diego Padres catcher Christian Bethancourt reacted after hitting a home run in the Padres' 1-0 win over the Cubs on Wednesday night.
"How many home runs does he have?" Lackey asked sarcastically after the game.

Wednesday was Bethancourt's third of the season, and it was a monster blast to left that landed on the street outside Wrigley Field. Bethancourt watched it for a moment before rounding the bases.

"I got a long memory," said Lackey (4-2), who took the loss after going eight innings and allowing a run on three hits, with no walks and seven strikeouts.

Bethancourt and Lackey don't have a history; this was the first meeting between hitter and pitcher, which Lackey was well aware of.

"Oh, I know," Lackey said. "He'll learn."

Bethancourt's homer was the lone run of the game, giving the Padres a doubleheader sweep and the Cubs their first two-game losing streak of the season.

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HAUS said:
I got a kick out of this.. Lackey will fold up like a cheap chair and implode before this year is over.. He ain't got the stuff he used to have and it will show late in the year, especially with all the pressure that comes with playing for a perennial loser..
Forkin mouth breather..

http://espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/story/_/i...iego-padres-win

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CHICAGO -- Chicago Cubs pitcher John Lackey was apparently upset with the way San Diego Padres catcher Christian Bethancourt reacted after hitting a home run in the Padres' 1-0 win over the Cubs on Wednesday night.
"How many home runs does he have?" Lackey asked sarcastically after the game.

Wednesday was Bethancourt's third of the season, and it was a monster blast to left that landed on the street outside Wrigley Field. Bethancourt watched it for a moment before rounding the bases.

"I got a long memory," said Lackey (4-2), who took the loss after going eight innings and allowing a run on three hits, with no walks and seven strikeouts.

Bethancourt and Lackey don't have a history; this was the first meeting between hitter and pitcher, which Lackey was well aware of.

"Oh, I know," Lackey said. "He'll learn."

Bethancourt's homer was the lone run of the game, giving the Padres a doubleheader sweep and the Cubs their first two-game losing streak of the season.

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I saw Lackey at our anger management classes for a year, until he packed up and left for Shitcago. Dude has some issues. I guess when you serve up a 77 mph off speed pitch with your old tired arm, and allow the ball to be hit so hard, long, and far.....that they had an inflight meal service on the trip out of the park....I see why he got angry.

I'm personally smiling at Heyward. Wasn't impressed with him in STL or never understood the hype. $25 million a year for a dude 30 games in and ZERO HR's, zero triples, 5 weak ass doubles, almost double the strikeouts to walks, while batting .216 & slugging .256 The Cubs paid $22 million for a guy to bat like Pete Kozma. Meanwhile his replacement, Stephen Piscotty. 5HR, .319 BA and .514 slugging THE BIGGEST STAT for all those baseball junkies who now believe you gotta have a WAR to be worth something......the dumbest chit ever in my opinion. Heyward has a .2 WAR. Piscotty a 1.4 WAR

Heyward $22 million
Piscotty $512,500

I sure Piscotty pays off this year. I'm worried he wont'

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DADAKOTA said:
Not much banter with the Blues winning.

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2+ weeks on the 2016 WS Champion Royals thread......I guess when the team can't stay above .500, its clear to see how the bandwagon guys don't post, brag, or talk about last nights loss. I would go down there to post the win total of the Royals and the win total of the Cardinals, just to show Mac he is losing the imaginary bet I ran out of time to jump on. I'm sure he is happy. I was going to ask for a bottle of Peppy Van Winkle. After all, if you make a bet to support your team, you make it a good one. Nothing says I support you like a bottle of cheap ass scotch from the discount liquor section of Wal-Mark,

Its still May, which means there isn't much to talk about with STL baseball. All we care about Wags, is to still be talking about how they are playing in October. I just wonder how long is going to take for the New Money fans to make a post about their current 3-7 streak they are on.

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H2ODOG said:
I can agree with that.

Holliday at 1st doesn't work. It was never going to work. You either get a 1st baseman, or use Moss and Adams. Cards didn't spend the money they wanted to this winter. It hasn't hurt them. Could have used the starting pitching the last couple months, but happy Heyward left. His replacement is way better for way less.

A year or 2 down the road the cards will still have plenty of money to spend. The Cubs have doubled their payroll from 2 years ago. Next year, they add $13 million to it from Zobrist and Heyward. Arrieta will command $25+ Million a year minimum. Probably closer to $30 million. That puts them at $220-225 million a year minimum. !| it keeps getting heavier year after year. Cards have $35 million less on the books this year. Next year, only $93 million committed. The money is there to spend next year and make STL even better.

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last_stand said:


All in all we are in the WC hunt.

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Bubba said:

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last_stand said:


All in all we are in the WC hunt.

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Way better than being in the hunt for the number 1 overall pick in baseball for 2017. Just sayin. The way they look, I'm guessing 2018 also.

What's the over/under on 100 losses??

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Bubba said:

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last_stand said:


All in all we are in the WC hunt.

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last_stand said:
Phambino can go to center now.

Be great if he can stay healthy for a week or two.

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Couple more games and he might match Heyward's HR total for the year.

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HAUS said:
I just finished a season of coaching 13 y/o boys...

Cards look about the same.

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HAUS said:
I just finished a season of coaching 13 y/o boys...

Cards look about the same.

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wuchang said:
Pena would have a hard time throwing Last Stand out if LS was trying to steal 2nd

and if LS was pitching--

he would strike Pena out 3 out of 4

Cubs can go .500 ball and the cards would have to go around .600 to catch them

I don't see them catching the Cubs

Only hope is .......
Cards will be playing their wild card competition soon
Marlins & Dodgers this month
Mets next month
Pirates & Giants September

and the Cards still have a lot of games with the Reds,Brewers and Bubba's Braves

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Bubba said:
Hey.....I was a pretty steely 1st sacker back in the day. Never assume..

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Bubba said:
Obviously you are a young punk. Back in my day that's how you described infielders...

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naw, he's old as fork..

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H2ODOG said:
Watching them nightly will make a man drink a lot.

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H2ODOG said:
I meant to put Diaz at SS and Gyroko at 2nd

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H2ODOG said:
More magic pixie dust for a come behind win.

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last_stand said:
Reyes is listed at 175 lbs.

If that forker is a pound under 225 I'll let Bubba kiss my azz!

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last_stand said:
Dang Wu. That cuts deep.

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Don't take it to heart--I'm sure most of us in this dump could fit that description

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last_stand said:
Good win yesterday. Gotta beat up the weak teams after all.

Keep hearing about the hot Royals.

A sweep of the Marlins would convince me.

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H2ODOG said:
More magic pixie dust for a come behind win.

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Was that "pixie dust" still left from the early 80's Cards teams with Hernandez, Porter, etc.? LOL

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last_stand said:
Cardinals seem to need help from everywhere because every time they get close to respectable, competitive play they fall down with horrid defense, base running and now pitching has joined the fold.

I'm a big fan. I've waited and waited for this pathetic trend to end but so far I got nothing to show for it but a prayer:

Dear God,

Please make this team play better fundamental baseball, especially when it really counts.

Thank You God.

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last_stand said:
Cardinals seem to need help from everywhere because every time they get close to respectable, competitive play they fall down with horrid defense, base running and now pitching has joined the fold.

I'm a big fan. I've waited and waited for this pathetic trend to end but so far I got nothing to show for it but a prayer:

Dear God,

Please make this team play better fundamental baseball, especially when it really counts.

Thank You God.

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HAUS said:
Even if they make the playoffs, they don't have the pitching to make it anywhere. I know they can get hot and all that, blah, blah, blah horsechit, but when your ace is Martinez at this point, you're pretty much forked.
I do think Lynn will make it back. He's been pitching in Springfield and the guy's a horse.

All you can hope for (IF they make the playoffs) is that Wainwright get's his chit figured out, Martinez stays healthy, Leake gets rid of the gonorrhea and Lynn can contribute somehow... I mean seriously, that was a huge stretch just typing that.

Time to enjoy the game itself and get ready for football season or in the case of StL fans, get ready for hockey..

Go Broncos!!

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HAUS said:I haven't heard where lynn is right now.

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Word is that he is close and could probably pitch in the last few weeks of the season and playoffs, if they make it. But... He is entering the last year of his current deal and I'm sure wants a huge payday far more than he wants to pitch for very, very long shot at another WS ring. I wouldn't plan on seeing him until Spring Training 2017. I hope I'm wrong but even if he comes back, it will have to be out of the pen and that isn't where the big problem is right now...

Thank goodness for the youngins' or this team would be 10 games back in the WC race. I had to chuckle about Matheny's idiotic comments about the veterans showing the young guys how things are done. Does the stupid forker not see the pitching and hitting stats of the last few months? Maybe the young guys need to show the veterans a thing or two. I'm losing confidence daily in MM... I finally heard one of the sports media talking heads bring this up on my drive in to work this morning. I wondered how long it would take before the STL media lapdogs would start to point out some of MM's flaws. Like managing a team that is so fundamentally poor, defensively, it has cost them a dozen games or more...

Here is my prediction for the end of the year: Wainwright has surgery and we find out he had some issue all season long (hopefully this is the case or he really is "done"). Garcia is declared mentally unfit to play the game and gets institutionalized at a place where everything is in order and nothing can disrupt his day. The starting rotation for 2017 is Martinez (ace), Lynn, Reyes, Leake and Weaver.

13 Games left and only 1 game out of a WC spot. Probably going to come down to the wire...

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last_stand said:
After sitting there last night watching the 3 fer 60 Brandon Moss be put into the cleanup spot by Matheney last night in the big Chicago game I came to a conclusion.

It will take a literal miracle for the Cards to make the WC playoff game.

Yes, he went 0-4. Yes, he struck out with the tying run in scoring position late in the game. And yes, he missed the ball with his bat by a country mile most every time he swung.

Thanks Mike!

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last_stand said:
As Matheney has stuck with him night after night in the last month, chasing the WC, Moss is batting .073 with 36 strike outs.

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