sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6075
Loc: Missouri
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Good story... I have no idea how accurate it is or if it is even true. But I receivd this in one of those forwarded e-mails and found it to be worth sharing:
Hooray for this Teacher!
Back in September of 2005, on the first day of school, Martha Cothren, a Social studies school teacher at Robinson High School in Little Rock, did something not to be forgotten.
On the first day of school, with permission of the school superintendent, the principal and the building supervisor, she took all of the desks out of the classroom.
The kids came into first period and there were no desks. They obviously looked around and said, "Ms. Cothren, where's our desk?" And she said, "You can't have a desk until you tell me how you earn them."
They thought, "Well, maybe it's our grades."
"No," she said.
"Maybe it's our behavior."
And she told them, "No, it's not even your behavior."
And so they came and went in the first period, still no desks in the classroom. Second period, same thing, and third period too. By early afternoon television news crews had gathered in Ms. Cothren's class to find
Out about this crazy teacher who had taken all the desks out of the classroom. The last period of the day, Martha Cothren gathered her class. They were at this time sitting on the floor around the sides of the room. And she says, "Throughout the day no one has really understood how you earn the desks that sit in this classroom ordinarily." She said, "Now I'm going to
Tell you."
Martha Cothren went over to the door of her classroom and opened it, and as she did 27 U.S. veterans, wearing their uniforms, walked into that classroom, each one carrying a school desk. And they placed those school desks in rows, and then they stood along the wall. And by the time they had finished placing those desks, those kids, for the first time I think perhaps in their lives, understood how they earned those desks.
Martha said, "You don't have to earn those desks. These guys did it for you. They put them out there for you, but it's up to you to sit here responsibly to learn, to be good students and good citizens, because they paid a price for you to have that desk, and don't ever forget it."
Friends, I think sometimes we forget that the freedoms that we have are freedoms not because of celebrities. The freedoms are because of ordinary people who did extraordinary things, who loved this country more than life itself, and who not only earned a school desk for a kid at the Robinson High School in Little Rock, but who earned a seat for you and me to enjoy this great land we call home, this wonderful nation that we better love enough to protect and preserve with the kind of conservative, solid values and
principles that made us a great nation.
"We live in the Land of the Free because of the brave."
Please remember our Troops!
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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That's a nice story, I hope it's true. In Little Rock, maybe it is.
In most of the country though, I'm afraid liberal teachers and principals would be teaching the kids that their privilege of sitting at the desks somehow came from John Lennon, Martin Luther King, Jane Fonda, Nancy Pelosi, etc.
In lots and lots of schools the ROTC isn't even allowed on campus anymore, as many "educators" are so anti-military.
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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huntoften
Mostly Duck Control Whore
Reged: 12/16/05
Posts: 566
Loc: Mifrickenssouri!
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True story...Huckabee spread the word the past spring. I'd love to do in in my room, but there's no way it would fly in the city 
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Bubba
strangesly aroused
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3824
Loc: Lemmingstan
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James , do what you believe in.
Inner City kids need a different exxposure than what they have been fed for decades or the cycle will never be broken.
You can always work again out in the red part of the state.
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God Bless our Troops!
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huntoften
Mostly Duck Control Whore
Reged: 12/16/05
Posts: 566
Loc: Mifrickenssouri!
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Royce...trust me...I do what I can to make changes, but bils have to be paid. Just finished watching Full Metal Jacket for the umpteenth time...kind of scary how my teaching style resembles Ermy's! 
I just hope some kid doesn't pop a cap in my chest one day. 
Edited by huntoften (08/25/07 03:34 PM)
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Teachers. We went to a party at a friend's house in SoCal one time, and my wife really got into an argument with a guy there. He was a public junior H.S. social studies teacher.
He'd had a few beers and he got to mouthing off about politics. In his strong opinion, guns, hunting, and fishing should be outlawed. Republicans are "fascists". The Mexican border should be opened and our whole country should be a sanctuary for "undocumented workers", the United States is a bully that invades foreign countries (this was at the time of the 1st Gulf War). You get the idea.
What really set my wife off - he said he pushes this stuff in his classroom every day. He told my wife "My kids believe what I believe - they'd better if they want to pass".
I know there are lots and lots of good teachers. In my opinion they don't even need to agree with my politics to be good teachers - but they shouldn't be allowed to indoctrinate kids.
Teachers are mostly liberals, and there's thousands of radical a-holes like that guy working. Since the school administrators and teacher's unions generally agree with their politics, they won't fire teachers like that and put a stop to it.
And that gives the whole profession a bad name.
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huntoften
Mostly Duck Control Whore
Reged: 12/16/05
Posts: 566
Loc: Mifrickenssouri!
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I'm definitely not a liberal...I keep my politics out of my lessons though..best I can anyway. I work with MANY right wingers..more than you'd think actually. It may be different in the affluent districts, but I've taught for 12 years in both rural and urban areas and know plenty of like minded teachers.
I know that I stress rigor and discipline as the keys to success...no easy way around it. I'm consistent with this from the moment they walk through my doors until they walk out in May...both of the teachers I work with do exactly the same thing. No goody goody, let's try some new program to make things better crap...work your a$$ off and you'll be successful. Maybe that's why our test scores are stellar despite most of the district being far behind the progress they are supposed to maintain.
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6075
Loc: Missouri
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Just curious James, why wouldn't it fly in your class? Does the school system not believe that our freedoms were fought for and won by brave soldiers? Do they have a misunderstanding of historical facts? And why won't the union that you belong to back you and support you, if you wanted to do this?
You see, these questions are somewhat rhetorical. I suspect I know the answers. But I always find it fascinating to see who is willing to pick up a weapon and fight a battle, in this culture war we're in. Seems to me if you found a dozen veterans from the neighborhood your school was in, or even some relatives of the kids in your class, it would have a whole different effect and make quite difficult for anyone to protest it...
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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huntoften
Mostly Duck Control Whore
Reged: 12/16/05
Posts: 566
Loc: Mifrickenssouri!
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Difficult to explain without being completely blunt about it. Let's suffice it to say that some battles are better off not being fought. The vast majority of the families in our district are democrat...most urban districts are these days. Any pro-war, pro-Bush event would be cause for major dissent among the populous. They bad-mouth the teachers and the schools enough in their homes and sometimes in front of our faces...no need for more fuel to the fire.
As for the NEA...not a union...not even close in this state. We have no collective bargaining rights, it's against the law for us to strike or otherwise have organized protests. I know they will back me on battles that are more likely to happen in the classroom that are not politically motivated (racial, sexual, discrimination issues etc...). My only options other than what I have chosen for 11 years is no protection at all or wasting my money on a namby pamby organization that won't do a damned thing to protect us.
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Quote:
huntoften said:
I'm definitely not a liberal...I keep my politics out of my lessons
That's it. You're not a liberal and you play by the rules. I'd say hard work and responsibility are your politics, and that's what you're teaching. Good for you.
But the education system won't purge itself of radical liberals/socialists who are indoctrinating. Look at how public universities fooled around for 30 YEARS before finally getting rid of Ward Churchill.
There are thousands of public school teachers that are lower-profile than Churchill who push their ideology to students every day, and they're allowed to keep doing it. That's not right.
The education industry has been that way for a long time, though. I came out of college in the 1960's pretty liberal, just from being surrounded by that crap for four years. It only took a little while in the real world to get my head out of my a$$, though. Hopefully, it works that way with most people.
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6075
Loc: Missouri
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Quote:
huntoften said:
As for the NEA...not a union...not even close in this state. We have no collective bargaining rights, it's against the law for us to strike or otherwise have organized protests. I know they will back me on battles that are more likely to happen in the classroom that are not politically motivated (racial, sexual, discrimination issues etc...). My only options other than what I have chosen for 11 years is no protection at all or wasting my money on a namby pamby organization that won't do a damned thing to protect us.
James - I would not dare question your dedication and commitment to your profession. I would not dare question your in-class techniques and style of teaching. But I think your logic and stance on the NEA and the culture war we're in is really twisted. I fail to see how this is a political issue. I fail to see how this is pro-Bush, pro-war or a conservative issue. This is an American issue. This is fundamental red, white and blue... If your beloved NEA wouldn't back you on this 100%, they aren't worth the powder it would take to blow them to hell... Of course, we all know they would spend their last dime supporting you if you wanted to hand out abortion literature or condoms or clean needles. But to think that you pay dues and support an organization that would not spend every resource they had to defend and support you on this issue says a lot...
Make no mistake, we are in a full blown culture war and one of the primary battle grounds is for the minds of our children. Like it or not, my friend, you are on one of the front lines. While your "rigor and discipline" doctrine is admirable, it is worthless if all it does is teach them to be more rigorous and disciplined when they grow up to advance the causes we all find so abhorrent (i.e. everything the NEA stands for). I'm no right wing zealot but I can see the mess that has been created in our schools and how the left wing zealots have entrenched themselves to make sure these kids all believe that Heather having two mommies is no different than her having a mommy and a daddy. To make sure clean needles, condoms and abortions are readily available to any high school, middle school or grade school kid that wants them. To makes sure they all know that guns are evil and those that use them to commit crimes are just victims of the horrible, unjust social system that we live in. To make sure that they understand that any American that succeeds and gets ahead in life is an evil capitalist and probably a crook. And generally, to hate America as the evil empire we are. To make sure they all believe that there can be no debate on global warming and the cause of it. By golly, of one of the liberal icons declares it to be fact and tells us all how the horrible USA is the root cause, then it must be believed and the doctrine followed.
I'm not advocating that you take drastic steps, cause all sorts of fights and get yourself fired. But you say there are some fights not worth fighting. While I agree with that statement, I couldn't disagree with you more about which fights those are...
If you only fight the fights that you know the NEA will support, you might as well not stand for anything...
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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Jaeger
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2008
Loc: St. Louis
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Sptsman is right, but it is not up to the teachers to reform the NEA and the broken system. That is a political matter, and it is we the people who have to demand change, and break their stranglehold on our education system, because they are strangling it.
It seems to me that the good teachers are the ones who concentrate on fighting the daily battles in the classroom. Much like HO says, they try to force some discipline, good habits, good manners, and maybe even a little knowledge into the heads of children who are not being taught those basic things at home. They do this while trying to teach those kids that are taught to behave at home.
The ones who are not living in the microcosm of the classroom, but are rather taking an activist view, and trying to indoctrinate children into one particular way of looking at things and thinking about things are simply not teaching. These people only have about five hours a week with the kids. There is only so much you can do in a limited amount of time.
The fact is that all of the things that HO thinks are important to teach our children are now considered ?conservative?. That is a shame in and of itself, but I can assure you that all of those things are the hallmarks of success. If you have those attributes, and you have been taught to critically consider the world, and MAKE JUDGEMENTS about what is going on around you, you are going to end up being a conservative, who does not have time for people who act and think like a looser.
Rich and poor, young and old, one line of political thought in this country plans for failure, and looks for someone else to save them WHEN they fail. The other believes that everyone can be successful with the talents that God has given them as long as they are prepared and have the discipline to sacrifice for success. One line of thinking believes that life conspires against us, and the other that life provides us with opportunities to adapt, overcome, and prosper.
Isn?t it logical that our teachers ought to be inspiring our children to greatness, rather than preparing them for failure.
When the St. Louis Public Schools brought in Roberti (a paid consultant acting as Superintendent) the Post and all quarters attacked him as if he were Satan. He was dragged through the mud for doing what hadn?t been done in fifty years. He took on the bureaucracy, and fired 2/3s of the people. He sold lots of rotting assets, and streamlined from the top down. The system was/is bankrupt, and he treated it thusly instead of pretending that everything was fine and keeping the failures in place.
One afternoon he sat in on a high school economics class. In that class the teacher was teaching the students how to apply for food stamps and economic assistance. He blew a gasket, and tried to get that teacher fired (he failed). He railed against the teaching method and curriculum, and argued that that teacher should be teaching how to balance a checkbook, and teaching the kids about credit, and how important it will be when they?re out on their own. He demanded that the kids be taught that they would be successes and taught the tools to succeed. He was so terribly upset, because this teacher was not teaching the kids how to succeed, but rather how to fail, and what to do when that inevitably happened. He got fired. The school board and the people in the city would rather be told that everything is ok, than be forced to look in the mirror. Fortunately, in his short tenure, he did a lot of good that the impacts of it are still being felt. We?ll see how this State Board does, but they could hardly do any worse.
Roberti believed in winning and success. He wanted a school system that taught that to the kids. It is a shame that it has come to this, but the great divider is not really left or right, rich or poor, but those who believe in success and the pursuit of happiness (however each individual may define it), and those who believe in pessimism and failure. We ought to keep the latter away from our children for as long as possible, because lord knows they will have to deal with them once they get out there in the world.
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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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I've got a friend who's a professor at the state university. He's a good guy, not radical at all, and he's actually pretty conservative.
He's real intelligent of course, and he says he just has to keep his head down at the university and be very noncommital and inconspicuous when it comes to political issues. Radical/liberals run the place, and he says they'd be "like a pack of wild dogs" if their attention got focused on him. He's seen it happen to others.
For one thing, he privately believes "man-made global warming" is total b.s. He knows better than to let his opinion on that show at school, or even to tell students that there are two sides to the question. The other "educators" would be out to get him if he did that, and you know how that goes in a workplace. Nothing would go right for him after that, they'd make his life miserable, and they'd probably hound him out of his job eventually.
So he keeps quiet, and employed. That's probably going on in schools all over the country, and it's a sad situation.
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6075
Loc: Missouri
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Quote:
Jaeger said:
...it is not up to the teachers to reform the NEA and the broken system. That is a political matter, and it is we the people who have to demand change, and break their stranglehold on our education system, because they are strangling it.
That is total BS!!! The teachers are the ONLY ones that can change the NEA. They are the ones that pay the dues. They are the members. They are the NEA!!! There is no group of people or politician that can have any effect on what the NEA stands for and represents, other than the teachers that are the NEA... And until those teachers stand up to the brown-shirts that run that corrupt and morally bankrupt organization, nothing will change with them. Just like the minutemen had to pick up their muskets and fight for what was right and just, so does the modern teacher.
Quote:
Jaeger said:The ones who are not living in the microcosm of the classroom, but are rather taking an activist view, and trying to indoctrinate children into one particular way of looking at things and thinking about things are simply not teaching. These people only have about five hours a week with the kids. There is only so much you can do in a limited amount of time.
More BS!!! Yes, the administration is decidedly "liberal" in most schools and yes, they have limited exposure to the kids. But you are sadly mistaken if you think the day-to-day teachers are not advancing these causes and indoctrinating these kids. Those that hold the traditional and/or conservative values are obviously going to have more difficulty with the administration of a given school because they usually have differing views. But if you are the classic "liberal" you usually have a free pass on anything you say or teach in the classroom. It takes someone like Ward Churchill to be so outrageous that even some liberals can't defend him, before anything is done to them.
Quote:
Jaeger said:The fact is that all of the things that HO thinks are important to teach our children are now considered ?conservative?. That is a shame in and of itself, but I can assure you that all of those things are the hallmarks of success. If you have those attributes, and you have been taught to critically consider the world, and MAKE JUDGEMENTS about what is going on around you, you are going to end up being a conservative...
Hmmm, seems to me that the most nasty and vile liberals out there are hard working, rigorous and very, very well disciplined. I think those are important to learn and critical to success as well. But they, in themselves, are worthless, if not combined with values that reflect a society that we envision. One does not have to bring religion into a discussion of values either. Historical facts can be used to support you position quite well.
Let's be realistic. The classrooms of America are one of the front lines in this battle for our national identity. As much as most teachers want to just teach, it has become more than that. I know it sucks and I know it isn't fair. But to stand by and let the left wing kooks hijack our schools and attempt to indoctrinate our children is unacceptable. At some point, the teachers need to stand up and say NO!!
I will concede that we, as a society and our politicians need to support these teachers much more than we do. When one is under fire for having veterans install desks to teach a lesson, we need to be there to demand that they are not fired or reprimanded. But that gets very difficult when they willingly and knowingly support the NEA and use it as their safety net...
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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I'm a firm believer that every society has exactly the government it deserves. For instance, the majority of the German people weren't innocent victims of Nazism - they were in the streets shouting "seig heil".
The same goes for horrible oppressive governments like in Iran and North Korea. Those governments couldn't exist without the consent of their people - or at least the peoples' cowardess and unwillingness to overthrow them.
It applies to the U.S., too. We're governed by a class of professional lawyer/politicians who work almost entirely for the special interests that pay them. That's the fault of the American people, because we let it happen and we're unwilling to throw those politicians out of office.
And ya know what - it's just as true for teachers and the NEA. The NEA is run by radical liberals because that's exactly the way many teachers are - and the other teachers are unwilling or afraid to put a stop to it.
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Jaeger
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2008
Loc: St. Louis
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Ok, on point #1 you are probably right, but it is an awful lot to expect HO to take on the NEA. We shouldn?t allow the teachers to unionize if they teach at a public institution, period. If they teach at a private school that is another matter entirely. By allowing them collective bargaining we have allowed them total control, and they exercise it in pursuit of their goals all the time. You cannot expect the few teachers who don?t like them to rise up against the masses of them that push for a ?progressive? agenda. We have a responsibility to support teachers doing it right, fight against the NEA too (you get to this at the end).
On point #2, you missed my point. It was that with only five hours per week to teach the children you cannot waste time with indoctrination or anything that does not pertain to learning and the habits of learning. I was not suggesting that because of limited time that indoctrination was not occurring, just that learning is not taking place in the classrooms of those teachers who are more concerned with churning out little drones rather than capable free thinkers who are equipped to make up their own minds. We agree on this one.
On the third I?m not sure if we agree or disagree. I?m with you 5X5 that control of our schools is out of our hands and the moment, and it is of paramount importance to get them back. I disagree that the most zealous and activist teachers demonstrate and teach anything but their point of view to their students. They may be zealous, but they do not impart to their students anything but the final product of that fervor. They do not equip them with the tools to make decisions for themselves, and not only do they not teach civics, some of them teach anti-civics.
Some of them tell their students not to work within the system but to use their rights to agitate for change by screaming the loudest, which is the reason that politics is what it is today, and why the best and most logical arguments do not win in the halls of Congress.
I?m not disagreeing with your assessment, and not even necessarily with what needs to be done. I?m just saying that this took forty years to go this way. The situation we have today is not accidental (which speaks to how hard working and committed the leftists who wanted to take control of academia and our schools have been). We are not going to change it overnight, BUT as in the ?60 the radicals were on the outside railing against authority and the system, they are now the authority and control the system, and have lost any semblance of rebelliousness and authenticity they once had.
The inmates are running the asylum, and that can work for us if we are as astute as they were when they plotted to take control.
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"Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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there shouldn't be any unions for any public employees period
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huntoften
Mostly Duck Control Whore
Reged: 12/16/05
Posts: 566
Loc: Mifrickenssouri!
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I just don't see how the NEA is the root of all evil in public education. I have two choices for liability insurance and legal support...the MSTA or NEA. The MSTA is the biggest joke as far as supporting teacher's rights there is! That leaves me with one choice...the NEA. I've been a member for 11 years now...never been active, but I see what they do in the districts I've worked in.
I've NEVER seen anything from the NEA or its members supporting abortion, condom use, alternative lifestyles, etc. The two magazines I get from them are all about promoting literacy, fighting against NCLB and making the workplace for teachers and support staff a safer, more productive environment. Are there radical NEA folks out there that push that crap? If so, they're not alive and well in my world. Maybe they are more prevalent at the high school level, but assure me, there is nothing negative the NEA is reputed to do in any of the schools I've worked in.
As for unions and public employees...something needs to be done. We were railroaded into a new salary chart this year that works us more hours per week, but pays us less than we would have made with the old salary schedule. That's just what's on paper. The administration has basically snuck in an additional 1.25 hours of work per week for us by lengthening our school day (good idea), but shortening the hours that we must be there. We currently are to arrive at school at 8:30...guess what time the kids are released to our rooms...8:30. In reality, it takes 30-45 minutes of work each morning before students arrive to prepare for the morning's lessons. We have to be at work early...off the clock...to get our jobs done. Do you think the workers at Ford would stand for that? How about an additional 2.5 hours of professional development per month...required, but not paid for? We have all of these things going on in our district now...teachers have complained, nothing was done. Now guess who is stepping in (with lawyers) to get this resolved...the NEA.
I'll go into work tomorrow as I do 200+ days a year and do my best to show these kids that their future lies not with rap, sports, or entertainment as many of them believe is the ONLY way, but that through hard work, honesty, and discipline they can break the cycle of poverty and make a difference.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"I'll go into work tomorrow as I do 200+ days a year"--huntoften
it's the best part-time job in America
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huntoften
Mostly Duck Control Whore
Reged: 12/16/05
Posts: 566
Loc: Mifrickenssouri!
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lol...step right up and try your hand at it then.
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DjF
little buddie
Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 5393
Loc: staring at an empty mailbox...
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Uhmmmm...teachers good!!!
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somewhere between "Hi, how can we help you?" and "Get off my lawn!"
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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I have, didn't care for the pay, and my audience was much too small then
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DjF
little buddie
Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 5393
Loc: staring at an empty mailbox...
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pay aint bad for the time spent working...MILFs, MILFs, MILFs...but it is kinda creepy calling them MILFs when you is older than them...
got to spend every summer watching my kids grow up...I don't preach at school, I don't politictate at school...I am who I am, I live by it, and I hope the kiddos learn by it...
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somewhere between "Hi, how can we help you?" and "Get off my lawn!"
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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I've gotta hand it to those who spend their time working with kids - it's a gift.
After retirement I thought about taking a part-time job as a school bus driver for some extra income. I quickly decided that would be a bad idea.
Figured if I did that, I'd just lose it some day. I'd end up on the national news and in jail for stopping the bus on some back road and knocking some little bastages' heads together.
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