tanvat
member
Reged: 12/28/05
Posts: 251
Loc: St. Louis
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This blows. Clinton's health plan would require - that's right REQUIRE - all people to carry health insurance. If you read the article, you'll see she attempts to analogize the health insurance mandate to automobile liability insurance. Clinton is smart, but it doesn't take a genius to see that this is a flawed analogy. We are required to get auto insurance so that if we hit someone else and hurt them or damage their property, we have a way of insuring that the other person isn't screwed if someone can't pay up - so, auto insurance is for the benefit of the person you hurt by your negligence. But health insurance is - or should be - my decision. And what if I'm rich and think I don't need it for myself? Well, if I'm not rich enough, then I get wiped out - my problem. What if I'm poor and can't really afford what they are mandating? My guess is that someone making $8.00 an hr. is going to be able to afford insurance that doesn't cover much and has such a high deductible that, for them, it'd be next to useless - but, I suppose that is where the $110 billion in subsidies will come in - of course, w/ $110 billion in subsidies and a requirement that everyone have insurance, my guess is that aggregate insurance premiums will go up by about, well $110 billion and then some - this has the potential to get REAL costly on top of the already ominous liabilities in SS and Medicaid - the '08 choices are looking worse and worse every day.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070917/ap_on_el_pr/clinton_health_care
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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I'm not familiar with it, but its suppose to be a plagiarized version of Massachusetts.
How would you view children's health care in your new found conservative view? 
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Yep, and in looking at it backwards - from the point of view of the health care industry - how in the WORLD could I get into a business where the government mandates that every American has to buy insurance to pay MY outrageous fees? What a racket!
A personal anecdote, and I know everyone's got 'em:
My Mom died this summer at age 93. She had been in a nursing home here in Ozark for a year. She got pneumonia and was transported by ambulance to a hospital in Springfield. It was a one-way 15 mile trip with no care needed from the paramedics, they just gave her a ride up there.
I handled her affairs, and when the bill came from the hospital ambulance company it was for $427.75. I called them and gave them her Medicare, Medicaid, and private health insurance information. They then billed the government and her insurance for $859.45!
A month later she got a bill that said the various insurances had paid $627.00 for the ambulance ride ($200 more than their original bill) and she still had to pay another $232.45. I called the ambulance service and told them she'd died, and they said "OK, they'd write it off".
Health care is a RACKET in this country - and if you think it's expensive now, just wait until the government's running it!
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Hop
Reged: 12/16/06
Posts: 1801
Loc: Now that's a 10-2 Code
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And I say again. Anytime the Government is involved in anything that is supposed to effect People's Well-Being has been a flop and actually hurts people.
Look at Social Security,Medicare,Medicaid... How Sound are any of those programs.
Sounds like a Repeat of Billary Spewing her Crap as She and Billy Bob did when he was in Office.
As far as Social Security.. Use it for what it was intended to be used for and dont dip into it anything else. It was intended to be used for a retirement Suppliment.
As far as Medicare use it for what it is used for to help provide health insurance for those that have worked thier entire lives that have paid into it and those that have conditions that dont allow them to have worked to pay into it.
Medicaid.. What a Joke. I see Many Many people everyday that walk into our ER that are dressed to the hilt and as matter of fact see folks that are in much better physical Shape than myself (Not Saying Much) walking in with a Red Card in hand Demanding to be treated like Royalty.
And Many of those folks speak no english and here freshly off the Bannna Boat. And the first place they go to is to the free hand-out stations.
With that being said. Billary is just spewing Campaign Crapola like Billy Bob did when he was Running for President.
If the Government has anymore hand in Healthcare eventually the Quality Healthcare will deminish as those with Socialized Med.
Imagine one of your loved one's walk into an ER with Abdominal Pain.. And it is not a life-threatening thing...And your Loved One Can Not get a Cat Scan sent home with pain meds if he or she is lucky....Six Months Later things for them really go sour. And it is discovered that he or she has Cancer that has now grown out of control and has Mets to other parts of thier body and they are now terminal...
Now just think if your loved one could have gotten a CT scan that could have caught it early.. Good chance it would have been treatable.
But due to Governement controlled Health Care the CT they needed would not have been put off for 6 Months.
Okay I'll Shut Up!
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Visit us at: http://flocked-N-Locked.com
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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I see nothing wrong with forcing people to have health insurance, it is just like auto insurance, accidents happen. You all know that people will be treated, and you know that some people use this, and you know that you pay for it.
As to government control, talk to some Canadians about social medicine. They can get any treatment there that we can get here, it just takes a few months or years longer to get it. 
I think Hillary's plan might bite her in the ass, after all its a plan pushed by Romney and its obvious she's copying it. Think about it, how will she 'splain why it took her 14 years to come up with another plan, why does it look like another plan already in force??? Maybe some Dems will finally ask the big question, "What has she accomplished on her own, other than instigating criminal investigations?". 
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Quote:
Hop said:
Medicaid.. What a Joke.
Yep, and I hated to get my Mom on Medicaid when she had to go to a nursing home - but what else can you do?
My folks were good hard working people who never asked for any government assistance. When my Mom got so old, she got to the point we couldn't take care of her at home. Nobody but a multimillionaire could afford to pay what the nursing home, their doctor, and medications cost. When that happens, most any family is forced to go to Medicaid.
Medical costs are just outrageous - putting my Mom up in a 4-star hotel for a year would have been cheaper. What's going on is a massive transfer of tax money to the health care industry - and the more the government gets involved in it the more expensive it's going to be.
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Whackattack
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2554
Loc: Farmington, Mo
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Ozark just explained why Long Term Care Insurance is a necessity for some of you old forkers. You owe it to yourself to at least be educated about LTC.
I like mandating health insurance. My plan is even better than Hillary's though. I would make proof of insurance a requirement before anyone purchases an unnecessary item. Want a big screen TV? Show proof of insurance. Want a new car? Show proof of insurance. Want a new shotgun, boat, pack of cigs, 30 pack of beer, new house? Show proof of insurance.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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yes by all means let's piss away every fabric of liberty by having to show papers for everything we buy
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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let's mandate more monopolistic behavior then everything will be great 
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Quote:
Liberty said:
having to show papers for everything
That does ring a bell - I grew up on WWII movies:
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Gestapo: "Your papers, please."
"Ja."
"Your papers say you live in Dusseldorf."
"Ja."
"UND WHY ARE YOU IN MUNICH?"
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We're kinda getting that way here, aren't we?
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"UND WHY ARE YOU IN MUNICH?"
to buy a pack of cigarettes, as you can see I'm fully insured
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Whackattack
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2554
Loc: Farmington, Mo
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"to buy a pack of cigarettes, as you can see I'm fully insured"....Liberty
You have to show id to buy cigs why not show and insurance card. I also think you should have to return 20 cig butts to buy a pack of smokes to keep the damn things off our highways. I guess that's gestapo too.
If you like paying for others healthcare be my guest, I'd rather stupid ass people rearranging their priorities and paying for their own.
Most of the uninsured are by choice. The largest segment is 20-26 year old men. Now I guarantee you they aren't all disabled so they should be working and paying for their healthcare.
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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whack - Are you an insurance agent?
By definition, the total premiums paid in to any insurance plan are going to be greater than the total claims the insurance company has to pay under that plan. The difference between those figures is the insurance company's profit, overhead, and expenses.
That means that in total, ANY insurance costs people more than just paying for whatever bad stuff happens. Insurance is a safety net for individuals, but it costs the whole insured group a lot more money than not having insurance.
Making more people buy health insurance means even more money will be spent on health care in this country. Some of the money will go to insurance company profits and overhead - and of course health care providers will charge even more for their services, too.
Medicare, Medicaid, and health insurance are what screwed this deal up in the first place. You want health care costs to go DOWN? Good - pass a law doing away with Medicare, Medicaid, and health insurance.
Doctors would soon have middle-class incomes again and all medical charges would have to go down to what the market would bear. Medical charges are so ridiculously high now because providers are cuttin' a fat hog in the ass with all the money they can get from government and insurance.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"You have to show id to buy cigs why not show and insurance card."--Whackattack
why not make them jump rope, then skip in place and throw in a few mandatory pushups?
Freedom is why, damn you want to be required to do a bunch of crap go to Cuba or China there you can be happy in knowing that everybody is dancing a proverbial cha-cha-cha just to ride a damn bike with a flat tire to go wait in line for some stale bread or a bag of rice.
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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Quote:
pass a law doing away with Medicare, Medicaid, and health insurance.
That would most likely raise prices and taxes. The large drop in population would put a bigger burden on the survivors. 
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Quote:
Hellbender said:
The large drop in population would put a bigger burden on the survivors.
Actually, I think it's the other way around.
Doctors in British Columbia went on strike for a few months, some years back. During that time, they did emergency trauma stuff only, no elective surgeries, no Dr. appointments, etc. Ya know what happened? The death rate in the entire province DROPPED by 2/3 during that time!
One of my sons-in-law is an M.D. His advice - "Stay away from doctors, those guys'll kill you".
I'm at an age now where I think I know more dead people than live people, which is kinda depressing. Looking back at all that - it was usually the treatment and not the disease that killed 'em.
Medicine, like the FBI and sex with blond-headed women, is 'way overrated.
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Whackattack
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2554
Loc: Farmington, Mo
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Quote:
Ozark said:
whack - Are you an insurance agent.
No not an insurance agent.
How's an old fart like you gonna afford a titanium hip replacement, bypass, or a hover round without a little insurance help?
The HSA program that was introduced a few years ago is what I currently have. I pay the first $2500 out of pocket each year for myself and two children completely tax free. If a major event takes place, the high deductible policy kicks in and pays the rest. I saved about 3500 bucks last year with the plan.
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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You wouldn't stretch it a little would you Ozark??
Doctors strike
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Quote:
Whackattack said:
How's an old fart like you gonna afford a titanium hip replacement, bypass, or a hover round without a little insurance help?
Oh, we've got insurance. My wife and I have a policy now that costs us about $7200 a year. It's $5000 deductible on each of us, so I hope to never have a claim on it. We're just holding out for Medicare age, and in the meantime this disaster insurance will keep us from losing everything if something bad happens.
I've got stock in Stryker Corp., too. Stryker manufactures that hip-replacement hardware and a bunch of other medical stuff the aging baby-boom generation is going to need.
Like with Exxon Corp. and what's going on with oil - I figure if someone's cuttin' a fat hog in the ass I might as well get a slice of it.
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Quote:
Hellbender said:
You wouldn't stretch it a little would you Ozark??
Nope. That highly-slanted article you cite is talking about stuff in the 1990's. The B.C. doctors' strike I read about lasted a couple of months sometime around 2003.
Admittedly, the stat about the death rate in B.C. dropping by 2/3 during the strike is misleading. There were no elective surgeries or treatments going on, so I'm sure a lot of Canadians crossed the line at that time and let U.S. doctors kill them.
As far as Canadian doctors moving to the U.S. - who could blame them? Making over a thousand bucks a day for playing God is a pretty good motivation.
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Whackattack
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2554
Loc: Farmington, Mo
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I figure Kimberly-Clarke and Pfizer as additions to my portfolio. I figure I got you old farts covered if you are chasing tail with the help of Viagra or sitting around chitting in your drawers with your Depends on.
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Quote:
Whackattack said:
chasing tail with the help of Viagra or sitting around chitting in your drawers with your Depends on.
With a little practice, you can do both at the same time.
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Hop
Reged: 12/16/06
Posts: 1801
Loc: Now that's a 10-2 Code
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One thing about it my friend using Medicaid for what it is intened to be used or is not a bad thing.. Your Parents paid hard working dollars to support those that needed assistance.
Not on thing wrong with your parents getting assistance after giving assistance after all these years.
Wht I see is the Abuse that is wasting dollars that could be used for parents like yours and mine and people that dont have the physical ability to get the care they need.
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Visit us at: http://flocked-N-Locked.com
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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When you're faced with the real deal its easier to be objective. While a 14% survival rate for lung cancer ain't great, it 9% better than Canada's.
If one of mine is threatened, I want them to have the benefit of the medical advances that this country has made possible.
Some of you knotheads think that if this country is brought to the level of other socialized medicine countries, the research will continue at the same level, it won't. The end result is that medical advancement worldwide will diminish.
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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while you're looking around the archives old man on this day in January 2008, why don't you fork yourself and there's another message for you below
what knotheads are you referring to? Has anyone here spoken for socialized medicine? Hell, I continue to say get rid of Medicare and Medicaid, then give me a time machine so I can go back and fix the deep pockets mentality 
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