Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"Yeah you got me LIB, that sure looks like a logging outfit chipping slash at a harvest site."--HB
look HB has a new bar he's set for me 
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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Hey stupid, pat attention, thats not slash. Slash is the pieces left over from trimming a tree into logs, period.
Slash is in the woods, not laying on the side of a road.
A truck with chips in it isn't a chip truck, doesn't matter if it a dump truck, pick-up truck or a crappy wannabe like a Ridgeline. Its a truck built to carry chips, has a permanent canvas cover and a belly dump. They resemble grain trucks. I know thats probably a bad example because you probably don't know what a grain truck looks like either. 
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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that's a road in the forest, those are limbs and tops i.e. slash
a portable chipper and a dump truck to take the chips elsewhere. If you wish to be specific after the fact, maybe you should think of these things beforehand so I can again prove your ass wrong.
but I do love your narrow definitions to try to look smart, however, keep it up, I love arguing with a man in the latter stages of dementia trying to recall his past life on a scrub brush ranch.
if you had any power of deduction you could figure out that the process of chipping slash in the forest isn't as burdensome as you suggest, just as thinning the forest if allowed isn't as burdensome as you suggest
all the sudden everything has to be a certain way, the way you saw it happen when you were 12 and George Washington was cutting down a cherry tree, I guess you had a problem with that too.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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of course it will be impossible as they continue to implement roadless plans, just as fires will be impossible to get to when they threaten towns when they continue to implement the roadless plan. Aerial attacks are great, but just like in war, they require a complimentary ground force to be successful.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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George W. Bush plan for National Forests
"Significantly step up efforts to prevent the damage caused by catastrophic wildfires by reducing unnecessary regulatory obstacles that hinder active forest management; work with Congress to pass legislation that addresses the unhealthy forest crisis by expediting procedures for forest thinning and restoration projects; and fulfill the promise of the 1994 Northwest Forest Plan to ensure the sustainable forest management and appropriate timber production."
more
"For example, in Oregon, federal officials identified the Squires Peak area as a high fire risk in 1996, and began planning a project to thin crowded trees and dense underbrush on 24,000 acres. After six years of analysis and documentation, administrative appeals and two lawsuits, work was allowed to begin on 430 acres of the original 24,000-acre project. When lightning ignited the Squires Peak fire on July 13, 2002, with only a fraction of the area thinned, the fire quickly spread to 2,800 acres. The thinned area was unharmed by the fire. In un-thinned areas, the fire killed most trees, sterilized soils, and destroyed the habitat of threatened spotted owls. The fire cost $2 million to suppress, and $1 million will be needed to rehabilitate the devastated area."
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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Quote:
that's a road in the forest, those are limbs and tops i.e. slash
WITH A FRIGGIN MAILBOX!!!!!
You're out of your league when it comes to Western forest Lib, give it up.
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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that'd be your urban interface HB and I was waiting all day for you to notice the damn thing so you could overreact as always as if you've just discovered something
I take it you believe those people should move out of the forest cede their land to the federal government.
well, you would be in lockstep with the policy makers who are in bed with the environmentalists, damn shame of it is, Bush actually has a good plan for the forests and it ain't ever going to get implemented as it should be.
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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Quote:
that'd be your urban interface HB and I was waiting all day for you to notice the damn thing
Quote:
that's a road in the forest, those are limbs and tops i.e. slash
a portable chipper and a dump truck to take the chips elsewhere. If you wish to be specific after the fact, maybe you should think of these things beforehand so I can again prove your ass wrong.
No you didn't Lib, I was waiting to see your answer about it not being slash in the forest, but I had to point it out to you.
You got nuthin' Lib, you know nuthin', nothin'.
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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it was slash, HB, I hate to break it to you, it was a national forest sanctioned thinning project in a small collection of cabins on a thin strip of private land that was completely surrounded by national forest
it was instigated in the middle of a huge fire this year
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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Solution to fires: privatize Idaho's forests
Bryan Fischer
August 22, 2007
As forest fires now threaten the homes of the rich and the famous in the Sun Valley area, it's worth taking another look at possible solutions to what has been a catastrophic fire season in Idaho.
Common sense tells us that people are inclined to take better care of property they own than property they don't, and, as even the Idaho Statesman's environmental reporter Rocky Barker reveals, perhaps the solution to devastating forest fires is to take timber management out of the hands of the federal government and put it in the hands of private enterprise through lease arrangements or sales.
Barker revealed in a story that appeared in the Sunday edition of the Statesman that the number of fires burning in private forests in Idaho is "effectively zero."
Private forest fires are extinguished almost immediately by the quick response of owners. One manager of private timber lands says the worst fire he's seen on private land is about 100 acres, which is a long ways from the well over 700,000 acres currently ablaze in national forests in Idaho.
The reason: better and more intensive forestry practices, which include thinning forests to reduce the fuel load, and a system of roads which makes access to fires much easier.
Around 64% of forest lands in Idaho belong to the federal government but more than half of that land is either roadless or wilderness, making fighting fires a daunting task. Just 5% of Idaho's forests are in private hands.
Private forest lands have 24-hour fire lookouts, a practice abandoned by the Forest Service for airplane surveillance. Said the private manager, "We get to our fires before they burn a tenth of an acre on average."
He counted just 86 trees per acre in the private forestland he manages, while the adjacent Forest Service land has 200 to 300 trees per acre, trees which compete for water and nutrients and add fuels that carry ground fires like ladders to the forest crown.
Plus, thinned forests which don't burn are good for the planet, according to environmental doctrine, since the air is not filled with smoke and carbon from burning trees. And environmentalists should celebrate such forest management, because fires turn forests from places where carbon is sequestered and kept from being released into the atmosphere into raging sources of global warming gases.
Said this private forest manager, "How much carbon are we putting in the atmosphere right now that could be locked up in homes and timber products?"
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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Kempthorne: Fire policy increasingly emphasizes ?wildland-urban interface?
August 21, 2007
by Brad Carlson
Increasingly, the Bush administration wildfire policy focuses on areas where people, structures and fire fuel are in close proximity, U.S. Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne said today in an interview with the IBR.
Kempthorne, this month based at the Idaho state office of the U.S. Bureau of Land Management in Boise, said the Bush administration since 2001 has spent about $600 million a year on its Healthy Forests Initiative.
?Initially it was more random. Now it is at least 60 percent aimed at the wildland-urban interface,? he said.
Kempthorne recently toured the Angora Fire in the Lake Tahoe area. The fire has destroyed structures, but firefighters succeeded in protecting structures in a number of areas, he said.
Also on that trip, U.S. Senators from Nevada and California met with Kempthorne to discuss the prospect of removing more timber from federal forests.
When Kempthorne was Idaho governor (January 1999-May 2006) and a member of the state land board, a bug-infested tree on Idaho-owned land could be removed, he said.
?It?s much more difficult on federal land,? he said.
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hillbilly
member
Reged: 12/27/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Cedar County
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The big power brokers of the west, cattlemen and loggers, will never stop trying for the land grab Liberty. You've been well endoctrinated by them we know. The lease arrangement and sales mentioned in your article are nothing more than government sponsored subsidies. Something I assumed you weren't in favor of. There's nothing wrong with selling timber to the highest bidder in suitable acres, but in should be competitive.
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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Quote:
Common sense tells us that people are inclined to take better care of property they own than property they don't,
Common sense tells you that that is true, because public land belongs to all, the good the bad and the ugly will use it. Common sense tells you that private land doesn't suffer the same because virtually no one uses it. Thanks for bringing a long dry article, pointing out the obvious, to our attention Lib.
Lib you may believe thats slash, and for someone who's never seen a logging operation or a slash pile, and thrives in the urban forest, I suppose I can understand how you would make such a stupid mistake.
You're done Lib, your credibility on here is sinking below big Al's and his Global warming crap.  
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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Hmmmmm. Slash huh?
http://66.60.184.155/incident/pictures/full/801/13/
Logging Huh?
http://66.60.184.155/incident/pictures/full/801/11/
What kind of trees are these Lib? 
http://66.60.184.155/incident/pictures/full/801/6/
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"for someone who's never seen a logging operation"--HB
well I have as rare as they are, but you're only helping to ensure future generations will never see another one, because there won't be any forest left to log.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"The big power brokers of the west, cattlemen and loggers, will never stop trying for the land grab Liberty. You've been well endoctrinated by them we know. The lease arrangement and sales mentioned in your article are nothing more than government sponsored subsidies. Something I assumed you weren't in favor of. There's nothing wrong with selling timber to the highest bidder in suitable acres, but in should be competitive."--hillbilly
at least I know the proper relationship between a citizen and his government in this country and I don't bow down to the almighty federal government such as the sheep I am arguing with.
there's also nothing wrong with the federal government loosening its grip on land it can't take care of and sell it to someone who can, or are you one of those enlightened individuals who's never used a wood product in your life or written something down on paper.
they don't even have to sell all or even a half of it to satisfy me, just sell off the stuff that threatens the people who live out here, they can keep the interior forests and they can turn them into the so-called pristine, untrammeled by man acreage they desire, then when all of it burns the only forest we'll have left will reside on private and state land.
they can't take care of it, I am not a conspiracy theorist, I know what the problem is, they have too much land to take care of for the amount of money and personnel they have.
Common sense will tell you that if you can't take care of something you should find someone who can.
Sell it off in small tracts 40, 80, 120, 160 acres, sell no more than 640 acres to a buyer. People with their own selfish interests (Hellbender might remember this as the original conservative idea). Those people will take care of the land and manage it for their own interest. Some will take out the trees, others will thin the trees, all of them will manage it in a way that minimizes the effects of catastrophic fire on their land.
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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Your credibility is at a new low Lib, give it up.
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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that's always the response of someone who has no argument, HB
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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http://www.safnet.org/policyandpress/forestrecov/Costsofdelay.pdf
http://www.safnet.org/policyandpress/forestrecov/CAnoreforestation.pdf
these are from the Society of American Foresters
I especially like the second one, 20 years after the fire, the trees aren't coming back.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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they're on top of it
http://www.safnet.org/policyandpress/forestrecov/Montanaerosion.pdf
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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Hellbender's inaction plan revealed in this photo
http://www.safnet.org/policyandpress/forestrecov/SouthDakotareburndamage.pdf
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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You're losing ground.
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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again the Society of American Foresters
http://www.safnet.org/policyandpress/psst/fire0902.cfm
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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removing biomass i.e. thinning out the overloaded fuels and using them
http://www.safnet.org/policyandpress/psst/Biomass_Utilization_Position_10-19-05.pdf
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"You're losing ground."--Hellbender
spoken like a man with no argument
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