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Hellbender
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Liberty]
      #119184 - 10/05/07 03:55 PM

Quote:

spoken like a man with no argument




Spoken like a man with no answers, looking for wiggle room.

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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


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Liberty
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Hellbender]
      #119214 - 10/05/07 07:37 PM

the answer is sell a great deal of the national forests to the states and to private people. The state sales should be massive acreage sales of 25-50,000 and to private people 40, 80, 160, 320, 640 acre sales. Cut the national forest inventory by at least 33 percent. Allow for more local control of the management of forests, place the trust in the local operations rather than Washington, D.C. When this occurs the forests will be thinned properly.

Your answer is to leave it alone, let it burn, let the forest service take out most of the access roads so that the only people who can use it will end up being crazy hippie backpackers. Continue to have the forest service spend billions of dollars watching fires instead of fighting them because you would think it a terrible shame for the wildland firefighting industry to take a hit. You would want the people who live near the forest to be forced from their homes so you can rest easier at night. That's the summation of your answer, which is why you are so reluctant to share it.

You've provided the vacuum and I am more than happy to fill it up for you with what your ideas lead to.


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Liberty
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Liberty]
      #119256 - 10/06/07 08:33 AM

Rush is right

CALLER: Hey, mega dittos, Rush, from the People's Republic of California.

RUSH: Thank you, sir.

CALLER: I just wanted to call and comment about the Lake Tahoe fires. One thing I'm not really hearing -- I keep hearing about global warming -- I have not been hearing about the poor forestry management over there. One of the reasons everything's burning is, with all the environmentalists living there, they don't allow any removal of deadwood or undergrowth.

RUSH: Yeah, I know, I just did a story about this. The problem with it is you've got the environmentalists who have got the local outfit that manages this stuff totally intimidated.

CALLER: Okay.

RUSH: Deadwood, they're not allowed to cut down. They're not allowed to thin these forests at all and take away some of the fuel that a fire would feed off of. Then you've got the San Francisco Chronicle, and other liberal newspapers, saying, (summarized), "No, this is not the problem of environmentalism! This is global warming and development. There are too many people live there who shouldn't be living there. We're destroying pristine nature." It's, frankly, ridiculous, the idea that human beings are the only ones that are unable to alter our environment. We're part of nature as much as everybody else is, and every element of nature alters the environment in order to thrive, and we do, too. The idea that we are not allowed to interact with nature because we destroy it and we disturb it and so forth is another one of these bleeding heart, left-wing belief systems that has its roots in, "(sigh) It'd be so nice if we didn't cut down that tree. It'd just be so nice if people didn't live that close to the lake. It'd just be so nice," and, of course, that's the emotional appeal that gets everybody: "Oh, how can we harm these poor people? We are a nice people," we want to be, and we end up not being nice to ourselves. (interruption) What? We just had a question asked by one of my obedient staff, ladies and gentlemen: "How does a fire start because of global warming?" The fire doesn't start because of global warming. But the inability to put it out and to keep it from spreading, high winds, unusually high temperatures, lack of rainmaking the timber dry and just lethal, that is because of global warming. (interruption) Well, of course, because those forest fires started by lightning, and lightning is nature. But a forest fire where human beings live is not nature; it is destruction. I can't believe you still haven't figured this stuff out after 19 years of listening.
BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Now, remember two weeks ago we told you that the northern spotted owl was back in the news, back in trouble, and the numbers of pairs of northern spotted owls is continuing to dwindle out there? Despite all of the preservation of pristine, old-growth forests, where we were told for years in the eighties and nineties, that only there could the spotted owl thrive. If it didn't have pristine, old-growth forest, why, it would die out -- despite the fact that pictures of them living in the red K in the Kmart sign were all over the place.

So this story is in the Christian Science Monitor: "Northern Spotted Owl's Decline Revives Old Concerns -- [M]ost agree, could reignite the 'timber wars' of the 1980s and '90s, with lawsuits flying and activists tree-sitting to stymie loggers whose livelihoods depend on access to national forests," and that's what the spotted owl controversy was about in the first place. However, this story does mention one thing and leaves out something else that's crucial. Get this. Folks, this is a great illustration of how you should be skeptical of everything you read and see in the Drive-By Media, because when the spotted owl controversy was up, we were telling you that this argument that they will only live in "old-growth forests" was wrong. It couldn't possibly be true because they were spotted living elsewhere. In fact, Weyerhaeuser or somebody was replanting. You know, they replant trees when they cut 'em down. The people in the wood business, the timber business need product. The tree is just a crop. It takes a little bit longer than a stalk of corn to grow, but they plant these things constantly. They spotted northern spotted owls living in young trees, certainly not old growth. What's "old growth" anyway?

"Old growth, Mr. Limbaugh, is trees that have been here since the creation of time!"

"Oh, give me a break!"

"Yes, those beautiful redwoods, Mr. Limbaugh, they're hundreds and hundreds of years old."

"Yeah, well, we're all here thousands and thousands of years. If those things are as old as the planet, we could climb to the moon on them. Idiot!"

I remember these people calling, talking to me about this. Now, listen to this: "The latest recovery proposal tries to incorporate new information about where spotted owls prefer to live (which is not always old-growth forests)..." Really? Yes. "'We've had years of intensive scientific study on the northern spotted owl, so we've learned a lot more about it, a lot more about the habitat it needs,' says Phil Carroll, spokesman for the FWS's Oregon field office in Portland. For example, he says, in some parts of its range, it's not quite as dependent on big blocks of old growth as we had thought before.'" So all of this in the eighties, about the spotted owl and putting the timber business out of business, was a hoax! They knew then it was a hoax, and now they've got the guts to report it. What this story doesn't mention, ladies and gentlemen, about the dwindling numbers of spotted owls? You guys remember the story on this two weeks ago? You know what's happening out there. There's a predator owl out there called the barred owl, and pardon my French, but the barred owl is kicking the ass out of the northern spotted owl. And they're intermingling and mating with them. So you've got the north sparred bowel -- or owl, or whatever. So these big barred owls are coming in there. They're taking over. They're wiping out some of the spotted owls, but this story doesn't mention that as one of the reasons why there are dwindling numbers of northern spotted owls. (interruption) They're raping female spotted owls, exactly. If you're going to need an abuse billboard anywhere, put it out there in the Great Northwest forests to get these barred owls to stop picking on the northern spotted owl.
BREAK TRANSCRIPT

RUSH: Speaking of this Tahoe fire, I forgot to mention this. They have a restriction out there that you can only cut timber, I think it's ten or 12 feet from your house. I'm not sure about the number. But, this guy broke the law. He said to hell with it, and he cut it 50 to 70 feet away from his house. His house is the one standing. His house is standing! A lot of his neighbors who followed these regulations houses have burned to the ground. Fire department people out there, fire experts have been warning not just in Tahoe, but in the El Dorado Forest, "You guys are sitting on a powder keg out here." But, you know, Dianne Feinstein and some other people introduced legislation to thin out some of these forests. The Sierra Club's been appealing it for ten years and holding it up. There are countless illustrations. It's just another illustration of all this do-gooderism, and, "(sigh) It's just so nice to look at those trees. It'd be so mean to cut them down. They have feelings, too, and of course what about nature and what about tourism? We love watching those trees. They're so nice to look at. They're so pretty." Yeah, and now we're talking about the dead ones. Every one of these do-gooder, nice -- or motivated by nice -- ideas that the left have, every one of them is wrong. Every one of them ends up causing destruction, either to families or to property or the overall culture. It is not even arguable. Liberalism, among all these other things, is just destructive, under the guise of "being nice." Yes, being nice and compassionate and thoughtful and feeling good about yourself -- while everything goes to hell around you.


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Hellbender
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Liberty]
      #119269 - 10/06/07 10:42 AM



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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


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Liberty
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Hellbender]
      #119306 - 10/06/07 06:05 PM

you might as well post up just how wrong you are to support socialists, it's obvious you're a damn commie with no answers.

Or more likely a puss who knows his support of the national forests goes against every principle he claimed to stand for on this website.

You've mastered the Democratic argument HB, whatever you do, don't answer the questions, if you start to, be vague and attack your opponent.

You don't live out here and I now know you never lived anywhere near a national forest, you obviously lived in the middle of the damn Oregon desert in the southeast quadrant of the state. You support the government over your fellow citizens and believe in its supremacy to just force people out and off their lands either through fiat or inaction. Either way the results are the same and people's freedoms have been trammeled upon, all the while you support the wilderness act of 1964 that promoted the greatest myth of our time, that somehow man is not a part of nature.

what a jackass, I can't fathom why someone with the beliefs you have demonstrated in the forest debate doesn't just go ahead and believe in the boogey man SUV causing global warming, oh wait, I know you do believe it, you're just scared to admit it here, damn commie liberal


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Hellbender
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Liberty]
      #119320 - 10/06/07 08:09 PM



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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


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Liberty
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Hellbender]
      #119327 - 10/06/07 09:34 PM

puss

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Hellbender
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Reged: 12/14/05
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Liberty]
      #119335 - 10/06/07 10:10 PM



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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


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Liberty
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Hellbender]
      #119358 - 10/07/07 03:03 AM

typical democrat ain't got jack to argue, just defend the bureaucracy because it's the government and they mean well.

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Hellbender
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Liberty]
      #119375 - 10/07/07 10:32 AM

Now that I have you on your knees, reduced to cutting and pasteing pictures, I don't want further embarrass you.

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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


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Liberty
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Hellbender]
      #119403 - 10/07/07 01:33 PM

whatever, how damn sad can an old man be, scared to defend the fact he is defending a failed bureaucracy for something as trivial as ensuring his kids have a place to hunt, I got news for you jackass, elk and deer don't live long when there ain't no food, and when the entire forest burns away you lose entire herds. Your argument is pathetic and weak. Embarrass, how old man? you haven't made a point in six weeks running around like a feeble old man trying to discern some idiotic microscopic point so that you can avoid pointing out your bullchit argument.

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Hellbender
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Liberty]
      #119409 - 10/07/07 02:34 PM

Quote:

I got news for you jackass, elk and deer don't live long when there ain't no food,




Wrong again dumbass, the new growth gives them a boost. The Elk herds were the first thing to re inhabit the Mt ST Helen's area. Duh, they don't eat trees. Go wash the city dust off that Honda wannabe.

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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


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Liberty
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Hellbender]
      #119414 - 10/07/07 03:41 PM

"the new growth gives them a boost"--Hellbender

what new growth would that be HB, the stuff that comes around four to five years later when the soil recharges enough for cheat grass to grow? Nothing grows for several years after a firestorm, dumbass. Of course, you just blindly believe the "it's already starting to green up" reports from the forest service who pats themselves on the back for watching the entire forest go up in smoke.

the people who make their living off rich eastern dumbasses coming out here to hunt want the forest service to save the damn forests and to not let them burn all to hell, that ought to tell your stupid ass something


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Hellbender
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Liberty]
      #119482 - 10/07/07 09:42 PM

Well according to information you posted, the Yellowstone Elk found enough sustenance to chase Beavers.

Dumbass.






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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.

Edited by Hellbender (10/07/07 09:56 PM)


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Liberty
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Hellbender]
      #119502 - 10/07/07 10:52 PM

you're doing nothing but helping promote socialists as they drive people from their homes

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Liberty
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Re: Clinton Health Plan and crappy looking '08 slate [Re: Liberty]
      #119526 - 10/08/07 01:17 AM

Hellbender look here, a firefighter has brought the class war to forest fires and this is what you are defending. If a firefighter starts making value judgments about what he is tasked to do, I think he probably needs to be in a new line of work

from the fusee website. I think it's quite educational, the liberal view, the one you promote, rears its ugly head...

"Rural Idaho contains small communities and isolated homes of both poor folk and the ultra rich. Defending communities is one thing, but assignments to protect upscale trophy cabins and hobby ranches are not what most wildland firefighters imagined they would be doing when they enlisted. These properties are the vacation and retirement homes largely owned by corporate elites who make more money in a single day's worth of their Bush tax cuts than the typical ground-pounding firefighter makes in a whole season of hard labor. Firefighters will need to keep wildfire from igniting these isolated properties of Idaho's rural rich and poor because when that stuff burns it?s bound to be a toxic smoke that fills the air.

Its stereotypical but true: many rural Idaho residents are rightwing anti-environmentalist/anti-government types who would much rather be left alone?until a wildfire ignites and then they expect Uncle Sam?s firefighting army to come to their rescue. Some firefighters are starting to question why they are risking their health and safety for the likes of people who may scribble ?Thank You Firefighters? on a piece of cardboard but do little to defend their own properties or make firefighters? jobs easier, and in many cases, make their jobs much more dangerous."

Seriously, get involved in a new line of work, of course, he gets paid the same if he watches the fire or if he fights it.

Piss on them all, you just should live in a fairy tale utopia where nothing can possibly harm you ever. That's what he's saying oh and that he hates the fact that someone makes more money than he does.

America is a land of opportunity, get another job.


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