Liberty
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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if it is a flat income tax HB, wouldn't the money taken out of your check simply be removed at the same flat rate based on the size of the check thereby creating no need for a refund or a subsequent payment?
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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Quote:
Liberty said:
if it is a flat income tax HB, wouldn't the money taken out of your check simply be removed at the same flat rate based on the size of the check thereby creating no need for a refund or a subsequent payment?
Not if the flat tax is based on yearly income. Putting a flat tax in affect without adjustments for income can't work. To give refunds is, in my opinion, a backassward way of doing a simple job, giving a break to the lower income levels to prevent an outcry of "Carrying the rich". Lets face it, we hear that now even though its not true. The liberal left would have a field day with an unadjusted flat tax, but that shouldn't prevent the adoption of a simple tax.
So in order to cover multiple checks, the individual makes the adjustment, with a calculator by simply keeping a running total and making a quarterly adjustment.
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Quote:
Liberty said:
I just made GUS a three star general after that
I just gave him a big NEGATIVE and knocked him back down to two stars.
I've got nothing against GUS, I'm sure he's a helluva nice guy, and I'd have been glad to give him another star myself if I'd thought of it.
But I wouldn't want Liberty's opinion to count for anything.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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shouldn't you be drinking more of your swill
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Vogi
member
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 1756
Loc: Saline County, MO
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Quote:
Liberty said:
"So you two economist really think that the guy that makes 1 mil a year really buys that much more stuff than the average Joe?"--Hellbender
not as a percentage of his income, but he definitely buys more than the average Joe, and he buys more expensive items than the average Joe at Wal-Mart, while Joe spends $200 at Wal-Mart a week, the millionaire spends $200 on one shirt that he calls his work shirt. While average Joe buys a Chevy every four to eight years, millionaire Joe buys three vehicles in a three year span and they ain't Chevys and if they are they are the expensive ones.
While average Joe spends $500 to buy his kids stuff for school, millionaire Joe spends $1,500 to do the same. He then books a vacation.
The average Joe definitely spends more money as a percentage of his income, but since sales tax revenues are based on gross sales, millionaire Joe far exceeds average Joe's contribution to the federal treasury.
Millionaire Joe must also eat, while average Joe buys a can of chili, millionaire Joe goes out to the finest restaurant in town and drops down a few hundred to a couple of grand on a meal and wine. Millionaire Joe also spends more money at the grocery store.
Plus, with the new tax system, millionaire Joe is actually a millionaire rather than a person who gets to keep half of what he earned in the present system of taxation.
another point, some people fear a sales tax on home sales, imagine the stark difference in paying a one time tax on a home rather than an annual property tax. A person who moves around a lot may be adversely affected by the sales tax, but a person who stays in place for several years will easily pay less in taxes, have a lower mortgage payment and more money in his pocket to go to Lowes or Home Depot to make improvements on his house.
You really need to get out to rural America and see how the so called "millionaire Joe" lives. Not quite like you think, more like the "average Joe" you mentioned. But you'd have to look at all the locals and try to pick out the "boys with money" first, and good luck. I think our local coffee shop crowd would be a bit of an eye opener for you. 
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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I know how the average millionaire lives, and they buy groceries too, I guess your linear mind missed that point. But the average millionaire also buys expensive items as well. And that practice amongst enough of them, easily surpasses the average Joe's spending, though Average Joe spends a higher percentage.
you need to get out more if you think that what I said is not true, not everyone made their million on government subsidy and has to dress down so they don't get their ass kicked by farm hands drinking PBR
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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Quote:
I know how the average millionaire lives
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Ozark
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Quote:
Liberty said:
I know how the average millionaire lives
I've always admired people who have money, but you wouldn't know it.
I think it shows maturity and responsibility for such folks to drive older cars, dress no better than anybody else, and not flaunt it. The satisfaction would be in not having financial worries, knowing you could buy anything you wanted, and knowing you don't owe a penny to anybody.
The people who show-off with expensive toys and live the lifestyle of the rich and famous are usually up to their asses in debt, in my experience. They're trying to prove something and they prob'ly got little d!cks too, but I wouldn't know about that.
That's why I kinda like that sales tax plan, though I think it has some flaws. It would, at least, benefit some smart people and penalize idiots, and that's exactly opposite to most tax schemes.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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again, it's not flaunting your wealth if you spend more than average Joe
let me explain, Millionaire Joe needs the same things Average Joe needs, so the two buy all of the same things, Millionaire Joe and Average Joe have different wants, there we have some differences, yet if you honestly looked at what the actual spending habits of the average millionaire versus the average Joe you will find THAT WHILE THE AVERAGE JOE SPENDS A GREATER PERCENTAGE OF HIS INCOME, THE AVERAGE MILLIONAIRE STILL SPENDS MORE MONEY PER YEAR.
Your foolish argument that the millionaire spends his money in another country or invests his money in the stock market or does this or that, while is partially true is nothing more than class envy, an argument of the Democrats
THAT'S WHY HB IS SUCH A LIBERAL HE WANTS TO TELL PEOPLE HOW THEY SHOULD LIVE HE IS AGAINST A SALES TAX BECAUSE HIS GUBBAMINT CHECK CASHING ASS IS AFRAID IN HIS DEMENTIA YEARS
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Vogi
member
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 1756
Loc: Saline County, MO
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Quote:
Liberty said:
THAT WHILE THE AVERAGE JOE SPENDS A GREATER PERCENTAGE OF HIS INCOME, THE AVERAGE MILLIONAIRE STILL SPENDS MORE MONEY PER YEAR.
The second part I might believe even if I read it on the interenet. The first part... 
I forgot to mention this...want to take a guess on how many new millionaires we have around here because of their investment in ethanol?
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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so you don't believe a person with a smaller income ends up spending a larger percentage of his income than a person with a larger income does? But you at least admit a millionaire ends up spending more money in a year than an average Joe.
You're part idiot, but at least you got the last part right
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"I forgot to mention this...want to take a guess on how many new millionaires we have around here because of their investment in ethanol?"--Vogi
I hope for their sake they are smart enough to diversify their investments so as to not hang it all on a failed fuel
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Vogi
member
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 1756
Loc: Saline County, MO
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Quote:
Liberty said:
"I forgot to mention this...want to take a guess on how many new millionaires we have around here because of their investment in ethanol?"--Vogi
I hope for their sake they are smart enough to diversify their investments so as to not hang it all on a failed fuel
You never know about those county boys, you seem to think they aren't to smart. 
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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they aren't if they stick everything in ethanol
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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Quote:
THE AVERAGE MILLIONAIRE STILL SPENDS MORE MONEY PER YEAR.
Very profound, Rosie Dorkweed has finally made a statement that is correct.But it does nothing to address the question of whether a national sales tax is realistic.
Is a National sales tax fair, yes would it work, NO! The reality is that as long as you have a society that allows you to make and spend your money, creating huge differences in wealth, you have to have a support system that matches it in principle, there is no free lunch. In order to support the system that creates the opportunity for wealth, you have to have higher dues for the elite club that achieves the most success, it a cost of doing business.
A national sales tax would stand alone until the first economic crisis, then when sales fell off drastically and the treasury started drying up, congress would be right back adding on more taxes. The same event under a sliding flat tax on income wouldn't suffer near as much because salaries and employment would be aided by the private sectors capital. While this would mean some private capital going to federal coffers, it doesn't stop there, but continues its cycle and returns to private capital.
Whats really unfair about our tax isn't as much the income tax as it is the deductions and the hundreds of semi hidden specific tax's lying in wait.
Get rid of the specific taxes, create a sliding flat income tax so simple anyone can figure it and you cut the IRS to a skeleton crew, save tax payers a fortune by eliminating part time tax preparers which eliminates their unemployment payments.
It ain't rocket science if you think outside the box, and realize that there will continue to be a federal budget to meet.
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Vogi
member
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 1756
Loc: Saline County, MO
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Quote:
Liberty said:
they aren't if they stick everything in ethanol
The only thing a county boy is gonna stick everything he has into is his ol' lady or the neighbors.  Well, and maybe his old truck.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"has finally made a statement that is correct"--HB
I said that in the first place dumbass, you're just too damn stupid to comprehend a damn sentence as is generally evidenced in your damn nonsensical replies
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"The only thing a county boy is gonna stick everything he has into is his ol' lady"--Vogi
I take it back you are stupid
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"Is a National sales tax fair, yes would it work, NO! The reality is that as long as you have a society that allows you to make and spend your money, creating huge differences in wealth, you have to have a support system that matches it in principle, there is no free lunch. In order to support the system that creates the opportunity for wealth, you have to have higher dues for the elite club that achieves the most success, it a cost of doing business."--the liberal jackass from Taney County
you have to have higher dues for the elite club that achieves the most success?!?
What a forking liberal, yes indeed punish those who achieve and reward those who fail, that's one hell of a society you want there Helliberal
and of course I love the fact that you have admitted you were wrong without admitting it, by finally agreeing that a sales tax is fair, before you argued it wasn't fair because a rich person wouldn't spend enough and it would be on the backs of those poor down-trodden failures
what a damn liberal
how long till you change your stance again Tonto? Typical liberal can't take anything they say at their word because they can't be held accountable for anything
damn liberal
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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Hellbender you're a fukking joke
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"A national sales tax would stand alone until the first economic crisis, then when sales fell off drastically and the treasury started drying up, congress would be right back adding on more taxes. The same event under a sliding flat tax on income wouldn't suffer near as much because salaries and employment would be aided by the private sectors capital. While this would mean some private capital going to federal coffers, it doesn't stop there, but continues its cycle and returns to private capital.
Whats really unfair about our tax isn't as much the income tax as it is the deductions and the hundreds of semi hidden specific tax's lying in wait.
Get rid of the specific taxes, create a sliding flat income tax so simple anyone can figure it and you cut the IRS to a skeleton crew, save tax payers a fortune by eliminating part time tax preparers which eliminates their unemployment payments.
It ain't rocket science if you think outside the box, and realize that there will continue to be a federal budget to meet."--HB
your tax punishes people for doing something they should be doing for society's benefit
I don't worry about the government having to do with less, that's what liberals like you worry about, first financial crisis and the government has to tighten its belt, boy that would be a damn shame wouldn't it.
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Hellbender
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County
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You're not a conservative Rosie, I don't know why you would think you are. You're an Anarchist with governing concepts that cave men rejected, in a word, retarded.
Your concept that workers should be punished because they haven't risen to the levels of those in supervision or investment is asinine. You need both moron, and you need both to feel they are getting their fair share, and no it doesn't have to be the same.
You can't call anyone conservative or liberal, you don't understand the concepts.
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A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"Your concept that workers should be punished"--HB
that's quite the extrapolation jackass, figures though for a liberal
no they won't be punished, they can punish themselves by buying so much that they create a problem on their own, but otherwise a sales tax is a tax of choice, dumbass
"to feel they are getting their fair share"--HB
Feelings, I'm getting taxed to the hilt for your fukking feelings! Go have a cry session with Ellen that ought to make your damn liberal ass feel better
you know why you'll never beat me in a debate Hellbender, I'm selling the pure conservatism and you are nothing but a jackass in elephant's clothing
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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"You can't call anyone conservative or liberal, you don't understand the concepts."--Hellbender
a liberal wants a huge government that controls every aspect of our lives
a conservative wants a limited government that performs specific, limited tasks and leaves individuals to their own ingenuity
you are nothing but a liberal at every turn since July when confronted with a way to lessen the governmental grip on our lives you have argued for the government to maintain or increase its power
you have no concept of control in the hands of the local government and the states, none whatsoever, sure you pay it lip service but when the chit hits the fan you sit there with your damn handout begging for a federal nipple to suckle upon
Damn liberal
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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how long does it take you to type something, trust me, you'd do better to just stop before you get pummeled again
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