sptsman
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6196
Loc: Missouri
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If you have 7 or 8 mins to watch, check this out.
Bobby Orr highlights and tribute... It is very well done!!
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6196
Loc: Missouri
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Quote:
H2ODOG said:
Quote:
sptsman said:
I am not a huge fan of relying too heavily on the +/- ratings to determine the value of a player. But it is one good indicator in making evaluations. The huge + numbers are always impressive but some - numbers aren't always a true indicator. For example, the checking line guys are always playing against the best scorers of the other team. As such, a -5 at the end of the season may be damned impressive.
Quote:
The Blues have 20 players that are "minus" and the Red Wings have 6.
Make up your mind Andy......in one sentence a "minus" is a bad thing.....and not 20 minutes later having a "minus" is a pretty impressive. Just sayin. 
When 20+ guys are "minus" that is never a good thing. The point is that a few of those are not bad, but just a few... 20 is bad.
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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griffin
administrator
Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 9625
Loc: the most dangerous city in Ame...
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Quote:
sptsman said:
I am not a huge fan of relying too heavily on the +/- ratings to determine the value of a player.
I would agree.....until you get to +124....then you are obviously looking at something truly extraordinary....you can't even compare it it to a + or -5....that's not even in the same conversation.
I don't know how I would rate those three......but I was in awe of Orr as a kid....and never felt that way about Gretzky, who I always considered a puzzzy with a large cast of characters to protect him. I'd have Orr over Howe though, for the years he played, but Howe moves ahead because of Orr's shortened career.
Still, not bad picks for 3 of the greatest ever.
griffin
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"The Irish are one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." - Sigmund Freud
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6196
Loc: Missouri
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Had Orr played a full career or even 75% of what Howe played, he would have likely moved to #2 on my list. But he didn't and we can only assume he would have been equally dominant for those additional years. But he wasn't because his knees kept him from ever having the chance. Let's not forget how dominant Howe was and how he played ALL aspects of the game. He was a great scorer, assist man, role player (checker) and one of the toughest fighters ever. They don't call it a "Gordie Howe Hat Trick" for nothin'.
Gretzky was just so dominant with scoring and offense that he never really needed to play defense. He used the adage that the best defense is a good offense. But don't forget, he was used to kill penalties extensively. Also keep in mind that he played in the era where "enforcers" were the norm. Not that we would have fought much anyway but his coaches didn't want him in the box for any 5 min stretch...
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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griffin
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Let us not forget that Gretzky was a puzzzy who never checked anyone else either.
griffin
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"The Irish are one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." - Sigmund Freud
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Quote:
griffin said:
Let us not forget that Gretzky was a puzzzy who never checked anyone else either.
griffin
Well at a buck 80 he woulda had trouble checkin a kid on a junior hockey team.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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griffin
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I also don't agree that the next game against the Red Wings is that big a deal. I'd like to see them win and I think it'd help keep the confidence level up.....but they have 20 left....they ain't gonna win them all.
griffin
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"The Irish are one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." - Sigmund Freud
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Kit
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2188
Loc: Columbia, MO
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I just hate to see them dump Walt and possibly McKee at the deadline. I say make a move or two to help the team and fight for a spot in the playoffs.
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"If you're the only one who shits in something, you own it. Remember that."
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griffin
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On one hand I agree, Kit.....on the other hand, knowing they are close to being a RAELLY good team, but don't really have a chance to win it all this year.....part of me wishes they would finsih dead last and get another 1st round pick......and dump Walt to maybe pick up someone who wants to show up EVERY game, or another low draft pick.
This ain't the year......I know that some playoff hockey will be good experience for them....but after 42 years, I'm patient waiting for the Cup to make an appearance here.
griffin
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"The Irish are one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." - Sigmund Freud
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7742
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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I agree....dump away for the future and let 'em do their best with what they got for this year.
If Tkachuk is gonna want more than two years....and they should know that he prolly will or will not....they should get what they can for him before the deadline...he is playing well enough for a contender to give a lot....and I don't know how much more he's got to give for top dollar but let somebody else find out..
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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Kit
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2188
Loc: Columbia, MO
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They claim Walt is the one holding these young kids accountable, together, and motivated. He may not be as productive consistantly, but these kids need an old hand to keep it together. IMO. Then again, I am still reeling from the Wal-Mart fire sale that sent us to the bottom.
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"If you're the only one who shits in something, you own it. Remember that."
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sptsman
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6196
Loc: Missouri
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I would not want to be JD or Checketts right now. These are some brutal decisions that have to be made. I would understand if they make a trade and try to get in the playoffs. From what I'm told, just one round of the playoffs changes their financial picture substantially. I'm told it is to the tune of $1+ mil per game... So the decisions are tough when you just stick to hockey. Throw in the finacial considerations and it get worse.
Trade for Pronger and consider moving Walt. He'll likely make it back here next year anyway. The other problem with moving Walt is that it has to be a team of his choice. He has a no trade clause and I doubt he's going to Atlanta again...
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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Bubba
strangesly aroused
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3828
Loc: Lemmingstan
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Jesus, will this twitter session ever end????
Who the hell is Oshie anyway?
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God Bless our Troops!
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7742
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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Like I said...the question is after losing to the Wings do we drop 2-3 in a row or pick it up and get some wins back to back?
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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Bubba
strangesly aroused
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3828
Loc: Lemmingstan
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Oh , hey , by all means go for the back to back wins.Losing 2 or 3 in a row is poor planning.I suppose it works in hockey like in American sports.
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God Bless our Troops!
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griffin
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You got it right, LS. The only reason this game was hyped like it was is because of the trade deadline.....there's still 40 pts. up for grabs.
Like I said before.....whatever they do with Tkachuck is OK with me.....but if they trade Perron, or another kid who looks to be the future of this team....I'll be pissed as hell.
The future of the Blues is as bright as it's ever been....no point in squandering that for some kind of playoff run this year. They CAN'T win the Cup this season.
griffin
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"The Irish are one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." - Sigmund Freud
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sptsman
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6196
Loc: Missouri
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I would not give up the farm for Pronger but I would give up Perron, if you could get Pronger to sign an extension. If you look at this team for next year, it has only two glaring weaknesses. The first is goal scoring, putting the biscuit in the basket. I think that is going to be solved with the maturity of the younger players and the return of Kariya. Pronger would certainly add to that area as well. He creates a lot of offense with his exceptional ability to move the puck.
The second area is just that, moving the puck in transition. With the absence of Johnson and Brewer, you really see how much we need a puck moving defenseman. Even when those two come back next year, we will be lacking. Brewer is a 2nd or 3rd line defenseman, at best. Johnson will be a Norris Trophy winner in 5 years but needs to develop and learn from a pro like Pronger. How much did it help Pronger to play with MacInnis?
I have no beef with Perron and think he has the potential to be a first line player in the NHL. But he has not proven anything yet and may or may not ever get to his full potential. Pronger is known commodity ans still one of the best 2 or 3 defensmen in the league.
My only question is why would The Ducks move him, if they weren't robbing someone blind? They need some cap space but seemed to take care of a portion of that yesterday. They can also wait until the off-season and have a few more bidders for his services.
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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Kit
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2188
Loc: Columbia, MO
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Pronger is off the market. Davidson claims Walt is staying and it appears that they are going to stand pat. That is unless something great comes along. I believe that Boston wanted him, but the price was too high. My gut feeling is that he will go to Pittsburgh if anywhere.
Twitter away, Bubba.
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"If you're the only one who shits in something, you own it. Remember that."
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7742
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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Well what are we 1-1 since the Wing loss?....the teams wanting in the top eight are stacked up like a large order of mama's pancakes and we got Dallas at home tonight......at some point here you gotta say it's a must game so I say it is.
I'll miss most or all of it but.....GO BLUES!!!!
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griffin
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I think it'll take 90 to get in the playoffs....maybe a few less if they all keep beating up on each other....but 90 sounds about right.
Using that number....it's a tall order for the Blues. The game tonight is MUCH more important then the red Wings game was.
griffin
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"The Irish are one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." - Sigmund Freud
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Bubba
strangesly aroused
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3828
Loc: Lemmingstan
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Golly......I am breathless with anticipation.........Gotta get that 90!!!!! 
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God Bless our Troops!
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7742
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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Well if we need 90 to get in we are skrewed......24 pts in 16 games.....each regulation loss will help hammer that average beyond reach.....I'm hopin 85-86 will do it. We need some chokers to drop off....
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7742
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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Hey Bubba...for sumbody who swears this game off you sure do hang around a lot.....bwaaaaaaaaaaaa.....kinda like a stalker ya know....
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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griffin
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Loc: the most dangerous city in Ame...
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LS - 8th place has been more then 90 for the last 3 years.....but I don't remember there being the log jam there is now....could take less since they will all be playing each other alot, but I doubt 85 will get it done.
griffin
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"The Irish are one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." - Sigmund Freud
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Bubba
strangesly aroused
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3828
Loc: Lemmingstan
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Quote:
last_stand said:
Hey Bubba...for sumbody who swears this game off you sure do hang around a lot.....bwaaaaaaaaaaaa.....kinda like a stalker ya know....
It's kind of like a car wreck....I can't hep myself from gawking.I actually have NO idea WTF y'all are twittering about. 
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God Bless our Troops!
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