Ozark
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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As I understand it, Honduras had a leftist president, Manuel Zelaya, who's a close ally and kind of a mini-me of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela.
Zelaya was coming up against a term limit, so he called for a referendum to amend the constitution so he could keep on being president. For life, presumably, just like Hugo Chavez and the Castro brothers in Cuba.
The army wouldn't stand for that and it looked like they might kick Zelaya out of office, so Hillary Clinton has been calling for the past week telling them they better not do it. The army officers finally quit taking her calls.
This morning the army arrested Zelaya, flew him to Costa Rica, and turned him loose (I guess beaner coups are kinder and gentler than they used to be). The congress of Honduras appointed another politician from Zelaya's own party to fill out his term until the next election in January. The new president says Zelaya can only come back to Honduras if he quits screwing around with Hugo Chavez.
Chavez mobilized the Venezuelan army and says he's gonna invade Honduras and put Zelaya back in office. Now there are three leaders raising hell about Zelaya being kicked out - Raul Castro, Hugo Chavez, and Barack Obama!
Shouldn't we be on the other side of this deal?
Notice how Obama always comes down on the anti-American side of every dispute? What a deal - now he's backing the expansion of socialism in Central America, and putting us on the same side as Castro and Chavez.
Next, we'll probably help Venezuela invade the place so as to keep Honduras socialist. The Chinese will end up with another base there, and they'll get all the damn bananas. For a liberal, the only legitimate use of U.S. military power is against the interests of the United States.
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Jaeger
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2008
Loc: St. Louis
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We should be on the side of the Honduran people, not this little Chavista. The Army was upholding their constitution…upholding the law. The guy had 7 months to go, was being term limited out, and was refusing to relinquish power.
If you are ever uncertain about a thing, it is usually a good idea to look at who is for it, and who is against it.
If Chaves invades Honduras, and Obama sits on his hands, he should be impeached forthwith. This evil moron is going to leave such a mess when he goes we will be in a world war for decades.
-------------------- "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan
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hillbilly
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Reged: 12/27/05
Posts: 490
Loc: Cedar County
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We'll be a 3rd world country if this health care and cap and trade gets pushed through.
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Jaeger
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2008
Loc: St. Louis
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It wasn't a coup either. How many coups have you heard of that were supported by an enected legeslature and the country's Supreme Court?
It was that little Chavista president who tried to have a coup, and he was thwarted. Obama is dead wrong on this one.
-------------------- "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan
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Ozark
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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I was born about 100 years too late and have to confess that I think things were a lot more straightforward back when we'd never heard of "political correctness".
During the Taft administration we had some trouble with one of the little countries down there. Might have been Honduras, maybe Nicaragua, Guatemala, - one of those.
Anyway, we sent the Marines, set up a coup and overthrew their government, then installed a local politician who was on our side. Lt. Smedley Butler of the Marine Corps was detailed to bring the new President to Washington, D.C. to meet President Taft. The guy was probably really brought to Washington to sign treaties giving the rights to most everything in his pissant country to American corporations, I dunno.
No airplanes in those days, so the trip took a while. Butler and the President spent several nights in hotels on the way, but Lt. Butler wouldn't allow the guy to sleep in the same room with him. At each stop, Butler took the bed and made the President sleep on the hallway floor outside the door.
Back in Washington, Butler was asked by his commanding officer why he did that. He replied "I don't care what he's President of, he's still a n***er".
Stuff like that may account for why folks in that region still don't like us much. But things have changed now - I bet Obama gets to sleep in the bed.
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Scout 1
New order Amish - not be confused with Meninite!
 
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6778
Loc: Where there are no ducks
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I agree with ya Ozark, about being born too late. I wish I'da been born in 1869, become a market gunner, and never lived to see the USA turn socialist. Certainly never to see the Abomination.
yer right, that forker is creating a bigger mess than any of us imagine.
The situation we have today in Washington isn't funny, yet here we all sit like fat happy frogs, all while the water approaches the boiling point.
Enjoy this Independence Day. It may be our last as a truly free nation. Can you imagine what things will be like a year from now?
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Jaeger
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2008
Loc: St. Louis
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I'm ready. I'm ready now. If there's trouble let it be in my day that my children may have peace.
-------------------- "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan
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Paul Dallas
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1189
Loc: the corner of Bedlam & Squalor
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Awwww F......
You people and your phony mis-placed patriotism, it makes me ill.
You'd be against him if he were on the other side of this issue, weak as it is. Really, are you that upset about it?
I don't give a chit about Honduras. I don't give a chit about Iraq. If they could all nuke themselves, it would be an act of self-compassion, and I would respect it more than your hollow-ass statements here.
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SwampFox
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Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 7948
Loc: Mid Mo
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Yea, I can see how that "Rule Of Law" thing upsets you libs.
-------------------- "Being deeply learned and skilled, being well trained and using well spoken words; this is good luck."
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Jaeger
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2008
Loc: St. Louis
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You don't know WTF you're talking about Paul. They called it a coup in NPR, AGAIN, this morning.
How is it a coup when the Supreme Court of Honduras, and the Elected Congress stop a little dictator president from trying to make himself president for life?
No, I'm sorry you little man, this is huge. This is our country siding with petty, bannana republic dictators over law and the will of the governed, and if you can't see how important it is that the USA stands on the side of freedom and liberty, then I can't help you.
We are loosing our country. This idiot President and this horrible Congress are bankrupting the country, and now they are comming after us, to bankrupt us. Cap and trade is the largest energy tax in human history. It will shine up this already down economy till all business is dead.
I can not stand by and see these evil fools destroy more than 200 years of prosperity and liberty in one fell swoop.
You are a Nazi Paul. You don't want to attack our neighbors, and you probably don't want to stuff Jews in ovens, but in just about every other respect it is clear that you are an acolyte of a cult of personality. Surely you are not alone, and as this monster rips apart our country you tut-tut his policies, and still think he's a swell guy. I think you will follow him no matter hwo crazy and reason defying the policies he supports, just like you hated Bush so much you couldn't think.
It is people like you, who are pure emotion and no reason that are ruining this country. I'd bet $20 you're a baby boomer.
-------------------- "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan
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moduckdoc
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2940
Loc: A porn site
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I am a baby boomer, but I am certainly no follower. If ever I was close to being one fro the GOP, I am certainly anything but that now.
How people can not see what is happening to our country is beyond me. BO and his army against America have taken every step necessary to end our freedoms. He is against this movement in Honduras because it is almost exactly what he has planned for us. It is all leftists and the UN that is against this stand for upholding the rule of law. It is our laws (US Constitution) that they ultimately will be coming after as they are truly only the last bastian and true hope for freedom throughout the world. The UN has made it plain that their goal is a one world government and that government is not built around individual rights, but total domination by the government to regulate what it is they see fit.
-------------------- Freedom it isn't free, but it is worth every drop
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Jaeger
member

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 2008
Loc: St. Louis
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What's the Chance of Stability? By Carlos Alberto Montaner
The United States, the OAS, the European Union, Hugo Chávez, Fidel Castro -- most of all, Chávez and Castro -- want Manuel Zelaya immediately restored to the presidency of Honduras. He was expelled from the country on the morning of June 28.
Almost by unanimity, the Honduran Congress, supported by the Supreme Court, had removed him for breaking the law and ignoring the rulings of the Electoral Tribunal. But that was a technical excuse. The deep truth is a lot more dramatic: Zelaya, obstinate and rash, intent on being reelected at any cost, heedless of all the warnings of the judiciary and the legislature, intended to drag the nation in the direction of Chávez, something that in Honduras would have been the beginning of a huge economic and social Via Crucis.
Immediately, the parliamentarians elected as his substitute Roberto Micheletti, a lawyer from Zelaya's own party who, until a few hours earlier, had been president of the legislative chamber. It seems that most Hondurans, including the Christian churches, support the action.
In reality, from a formal point of view, there is nothing surprising in the way Zelaya was removed. It was Congress -- in accord with the Armed Forces, after receiving a resignation letter signed under duress -- that replaced Gonzalo Sánchez de Losada in Bolivia (2003), Abdalá Bucaram (1997), Jamil Mahuad (2000) and Lucio Gutiérrez (2005) in Ecuador, and Jorge Serrano in Guatemala (1993).
In those cases, however, the international community barely paid any attention to the incident. Those were political squabbles that became clashes between the public powers and were resolved by means of a constitutional solution that saved the existing legality. Technically, they were not coups d'état but extreme forms of retaining a vestige of legality. In this case, however, despite the enormous domestic support behind Zelaya's removal, the international reaction has been different.
21st-century socialism
Why? Basically, because the ousted president in recent years had timidly joined (albeit in a rhetorical manner) the so-called ''21st-century socialism,'' a warring ideological family with a large resonance box. The family is directed by Hugo Chávez, who in 1992 was the author of one of the bloodiest military coups in the history of Latin America, but who today, invoking democracy, wasted no time warning that he will overthrow any president who replaces his friend Zelaya.
What we're seeing in Honduras is not a clash between uniformed men and civilians, or between putschists and innocent functionaries. Nor is it a return to the lamentable past of military governments. We are witnessing a conflict between two ways of understanding the function of the state and the role of the political leaders. Chávez's way -- an incipient ruling concept that Zelaya irresponsibly assumed in Honduras -- is a variant of state-run collectivism, a political stream that does away with the separation of powers that is part and parcel of republics. It exalts the personalist style, eliminates replacement of the leader, and adopts anti-Western positions that are expressed in dangerous alliances with countries like Iran and North Korea.
Will Roberto Micheletti's new government be able to stabilize itself? It will all depend on the strength of the bond between the two major political parties, the army and the other institutions of state. It is also possible that Washington will try to forge a compromise between Zelaya and his adversaries whereby the ousted president returns to the country but renounces his intention to change the constitution and to engage in reprisals for the sole purpose of staying on until the November elections.
In any case, participants must walk a narrow line because any mistake could result in a blood bath or the start of a long period of instability and agony. And that's too high a price for one of the poorest countries in Latin America.
-------------------- "Some people spend an entire lifetime wondering if they made a difference. The Marines don't have that problem." - President Ronald Reagan
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Paul Dallas
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1189
Loc: the corner of Bedlam & Squalor
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Yawn.
Please list in detail all the freedoms that BO is working so feverishly to strip away.
I'm no fan of the man, didn't vote for him, and other than loading us with massive debt, its hard to muster much contempt beyond that, along with my view that he's just another corporation disguised as a president, same as the last few. But you people are just flaming haters, my god. Still sore about the election I suppose, but you sure as he11 didn't produce much of a good alternative to BO when you had the chance, did you? Its your own goddam fault really.
To he11 with Honduras. It IS a coup, right? Didn't the dude have 7 months left in his elected term? Regardless of what he was no doubt planning to do, I just can't get upset about it. Half the goddam world is living in tyranny and why do we always have to have a "position".
Lets say you got so fed up with BO and the rest of the country did too and you decided to throw a little coup of your own and throw him out, and maybe I'd be right there with you. Lets say that happened. Now imagine China getting all upset about it and choosing a side and sticking their goddam nose into it.
I'm just sick of us playing world babysitter, thats all. I say open the front door and let the kids play in the street and get run over.
Sieg heil.
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Liberty
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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Quote:
Please list in detail all the freedoms that BO is working so feverishly to strip away.
P Diddy
Where does one begin
the healthcare package, did you watch his TV special on it the other night. He wants to limit your choices and limit your decision making on your healthcare decisions. A lady asked him on TV the other night about what his healthcare plan would have done in the case of her then 100 year old mother who was still very vibrant. Under the healthcare they had at the time, they were able to find a doctor who would agree to put a pacemaker in and the woman is still alive and well today at 105. Obama told the woman that in her mother's case the healthcare plan being forced down our throats would not have allowed that to happen "perhaps she could take a pain killer," he said.
While we all are forced into a government plan, because once they put in place a government plan all the private ones will go away because they have to make a profit that the government plan doesn't so people won't be paying more for the private stuff in a matter of a few short years. By the way, that's the economic freedom of literally hundreds of thousands in the healthcare insurance field. By the way, the Congress is exempt from this plan, so is Obama, they get their own healthcare while you get their shitty plan. Government bureaucrats look at your lifestyle and the quality of life and decide if you are eligible for that triple bypass surgery or as Obama said maybe you can get by with just a pain killer.
Cap and FRAUD, sorry trade--under this bill that passed the House this week and will likely pass the Senate and Obama will sign, did you know you won't be able to put your house on the market to sell it without first making it energy efficient and getting a government stamp of approval that it is energy efficient? Before you can even place a sign in your yard to sell your home you have to get this government approval, which is a moving target. What do you think that is going to do to the already ruined housing market? What does that do to the very basic compulsion to buy, will not people who are informed (sadly you are not) decided against owning homes due to their knowledge that they may have to move in the future to a new job, and under CAP and FRAUD, CAP and TAX, you can't put your house on the market without government approval of your energy efficiencies that you've made to your home.
Those are just a couple of examples of how he is taking away your freedom.
Now let's look at Barry's actions because this ousting of a sitting president by the elected congress, supreme court and military in Honduras to stop a leftist dictator from taking over is very telling.
Only a week ago when protesters were being murdered in the streets of Iran, Barry said the US shouldn't meddle in the affairs of other nations. So there he is at a fragile moment in history when millions are standing up for freedom and democracy in a mullah controlled Iran and Barry balks and allows Aqua Velva the space he needs to keep control. Prior to his Iran, which should be known as I ran so far away from the people who wanted freedom. He compared the Israelis and their retaliation on Hamas a forking terrorist organizations who was shooting missiles into settlements, Barry compared that to the Holocaust. Barry doesn't like the democratic Israel.
So what does Barry do and say this week, well he's meddling in Honduras, says he wants the president put back in power, why is this Barry, is this because you clearly favor dictators such as Iran's Aqua Velva, Venezuela's Hugo Chavez to a government of the people and by the people.
Barry's already planning on being president for life here, in Congress this January already a House bill waiting for the right time to be picked up in committee is a repeal of the amendment to the Constitution that limits a president to two terms in office.
Better question P Diddy, when has Barry ever stood up for freedom?
Don't bother looking into that, his record is quite clear, he never has.
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Paul Dallas
member

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1189
Loc: the corner of Bedlam & Squalor
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Rosie! Good lord, I thought you had drownt or something. Welcome back.
Nationalized healthcare won't happen, and even if it does, it will be so watered down and botched and full of loopholes - I don't see anyone not be able to go to whatever doctor they wish. But I don't see it happening.
Energy bill blah, blah, blah. No one will ever be able to move or buy a house again!
And yeah, Barry is going to get real far with making himself a 3-termer, only if the Maverick Moose Hunter decides to run again, maybe with Rush as her veep, it just may happen.
Back to Honduras . . . who cares! NPR said its a COUP, can you believe it? Gimme more Michael Jackson coverage!
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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there is only one answer to everything your government says it wants to do
NO
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Scout 1
New order Amish - not be confused with Meninite!
 
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6778
Loc: Where there are no ducks
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Don't bet yer azz on that health care comment, dude. You and I and every other taxpayer will for sure be paying fo the POS program. Independent of whether it works or not, is fair or not, etc.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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nationalized healthcare will be nothing more than the lowest common denominator, i.e. we won't have doctors who specialize in certain areas because Obama doesn't want specialists, he has said several times he wants more general practitioners, why? Because Obama says our current healthcare system is unaffordable because we have so many specialists and people get all kinds of treatments they don't need like a bypass surgery for someone who smokes, you know in Obama's hypocritical world, little people who smoke don't deserve the best healthcare they can afford. Smoker Obama thinks that if they made that decision to smoke they should just take a pain killer. If you are fat, Obama thinks you have a poor quality of life and rather than allowing your doctor to provide for you a necessary surgery, Obama thinks a pain killer would save everybody more money.
Obama and the Democrats continue to harp on there being 47 million uninsured people in America, maybe, but do they also tell you that 25 million of those people are illegal aliens? Do they also tell you that another 10 to 12 million are young people who have DECIDED not to pay for health insurance?
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Burrhead
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3075
Loc: Just north of Bugtussle
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If all those young people who voted for BO want free health care, why don't they join the military?
-------------------- Somebody has to walk the point.
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Scout 1
New order Amish - not be confused with Meninite!
 
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6778
Loc: Where there are no ducks
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We've all been hoping and wishing for a Pain Killer, but so far, nobody has shot the sun ofa biotch.
Seriously, if the gummint wants to do something about health care, they could start with the dumb mofos who go to the ER for every little sniffle or hangnail.
Emergency Room means there's a forkin emergency, IMO. If your life ain't in danger and you go to the ER, YOUR AZZ should pay the whole forkin bill, NOT insurance, and sure as hell NOT the taxpayers.
It would put an end to that booooolchit, in a hurry, if the band aid and Neosporin bunch had to pay their own charges.
Don't get me started.
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wil e coyote
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 95
Loc: misery (married)
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Quote:
Paul Dallas said:
Nationalized healthcare won't happen, and even if it does, it will be so watered down and botched and full of loopholes - I don't see anyone not be able to go to whatever doctor they wish. But I don't see it happening.
Energy bill blah, blah, blah. No one will ever be able to move or buy a house again!
Back to Honduras . . . who cares! NPR said its a COUP, can you believe it? Gimme more Michael Jackson coverage!
Apathy is one of the reasons we got prez BHO! For evil to thrive (Thats read "bad things happen" for liberals - I know they don't believe in EVIL) All its takes is for good men to do nothing!
welcome back LIBERTY!!!
And for a slight deviation from the usual bad news about gov't ; OKLAHOMA CITIZEN’S PROCLAMATION FOR MORALITY We the People of Oklahoma, Invoking the guidance of Almighty God, in order to secure and perpetuate the blessing of Liberty; to secure just and rightful Government; to promote our mutual Welfare and Happiness, do establish this proclamation and call upon the people of the great State of Oklahoma, and our fellow Patriots in these United States of America who look to the Lord for guidance, to acknowledge the need for a national awakening of righteousness in our land. WHEREAS, “It is Religion and Morality alone, which can establish the Principles upon which Freedom can securely stand” (John Adams); and WHEREAS, “We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by Religion and Morality” (John Adams); and WHEREAS, “Our Constitution was made only for a Moral and Religious people” (John Adams); and WHEREAS, “We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government…but upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God” (James Madison); and WHEREAS, “Freedom is not a gift bestowed upon us by other men, but a right that belongs to us by the laws of God (Benjamin Franklin); and WHEREAS, “God who gave us life gave us liberty and can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God” (Thomas Jefferson); and WHEREAS, “Whether any free government can be permanent, where the public worship of God, and the support of Religion, constitute no part of the policy or duty of the state” (Joseph Story); and WHEREAS, “We hold sacred the rights of conscience, and promise to the people…the free and undisturbed exercise of their religion” (Roger Sherman); and WHEREAS, “This great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians” (Patrick Henry); and WHEREAS, “When you…exercise the right of voting for public officers, let it be impressed upon your mind that God commands you to choose just men who will rule in the fear of God” (Noah Webster); and WHEREAS, “The principles of genuine Liberty and of wise laws and administrations are to be drawn from the Bible” (Noah Webster); and WHEREAS, the people of Oklahoma have a strong tradition of reliance upon the Creator of the Universe; and WHEREAS, we believe our economic woes are consequences of our greater national moral crisis; and WHEREAS, this nation has become a world leader in promoting abortion, pornography, same sex marriage, sex trafficking, divorce, illegitimate births, child abuse, and many other forms of debauchery; and WHEREAS, alarmed that the Government of the United States of America is forsaking the rich Christian heritage upon which this nation was built; and WHEREAS, grieved that the Office of the president of these United States has refused to uphold the long held tradition of past presidents in giving recognition to our National Day of Prayer; and WHEREAS, deeply disturbed that the Office of the president of these United States disregards the biblical admonitions to live clean and pure lives by proclaiming an entire month to an immoral behavior; NOW THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that we the undersigned elected officials of the people of Oklahoma, religious leaders and citizens of the State of Oklahoma, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world, solemnly declare that the HOPE of the great State of Oklahoma and of these United States, rests upon the Principles of Religion and Morality as put forth in the HOLY BIBLE; and BE IT RESOLVED that we, the undersigned, believers in the One True God and His only Son, call upon all to join with us in recognizing that “Blessed is the Nation whose God is the Lord,” and humbly implore all who love Truth and Virtue to live above reproach in the sight of God and man with a firm reliance on the leadership and protection of Almighty God; and BE IT RESOLVED that we, the undersigned, humbly call upon Holy God, our Creator, Sustainer, and Redeemer, to have mercy on this nation, to stay His hand of judgment, and grant a national awakening of righteousness and Christian renewal as we repent of our great sin. Signed on the second day of July in the year of our Lord Christ Two Thousand and Nine
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Ozark
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Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4012
Loc: out in the woods
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Here's a little bit of news that oughta really get you guys going:
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Earlier this year, Rep. Jose Serrano, D-N.Y. introduced H. J. Res. 5, a bill that would repeal the Constitution’s 22nd Amendment which prohibits a president from being elected to more than two terms in office, thus potentially paving the way to make Barack Obama president for life. Not surprisingly, the corporate media currently caught up in Obama-mania has not covered this story.
This bill was referred to the House Committee on Judiciary on 1/6/09 and then referred to the Subcommittee on Constitution, Civil Rights and Civil Liberties on 2/9/09.
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I don't think this is a serious threat now, but it shows what they're thinking. If (God help us) Obama gets a second term, you can bet the Dems will try to pass it then.
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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Anyone who doesn't see this as the complete and utter take over of the United States and a shredding of the Constitution (and I am talking about the entire Obama Administration and strategy) is simply blinded and cannot see clear facts for what they are.
Obama tells you, just like any adversary will tell you, his plans and they don't include you being free. They want you under the heavy foot of government. They implement policy after policy designed to create chaos and defeat amongst the populace and they now know they have an ignorant enough populace to pull it off.
Most Americans believed we were in a recession all through the Bush years, yet we were in a short recession in 2001 and now we are in a soon to be Depression from late 2007 to who knows when, but it has only been recently through misguided government intervention that I now forecast a deep and long Depression, greater than the one we had in the 1930s, when FDR pulled the same chit and convinced Americans they needed the government and FDR more than they needed to be free.
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SwampFox
member
 
Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 7948
Loc: Mid Mo
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Quote:
Ozark said: Earlier this year, Rep. Jose Serrano, D-N.Y. introduced H. J. Res. 5, a bill that would repeal the Constitution’s 22nd Amendment...
I must have missed the constutional ammendment that gave congress the right to overturn constitutional ammendments.
-------------------- "Being deeply learned and skilled, being well trained and using well spoken words; this is good luck."
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Liberty
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796
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Article V of the Constitution of the United States
Congress is the most likely way to amend the Constitution, 2/3 of the house and 2/3 of the senate required
or the method we all would hope would be used
Two-thirds of the state legislatures ask Congress to call a national convention to propose amendments, which I believe has never been used successfully.
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