griffin
administrator
Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 9630
Loc: the most dangerous city in Ame...
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And what's this "we" chit?? WE ain't adopted your Perryville/Columbia ass....and you sure as hell ain't filling a seat!! 
griffin
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"The Irish are one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." - Sigmund Freud
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LeeinMo
LSU Bandwagon Jumper
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1531
Loc: Koolaid C.A. Mo.
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Quote:
H2ODOG said:
Quote:
IIFID said:
"..I'd say its well worth paying him $25-30 million a year."
Don't get me wrong. I like Albert, but I don't think ANYONE playing a frying game is worth that.. but that is just me.
If you could hit a baseball like Albert could, hit a golf ball like Tiger Woods, or throw a pass like Tom Brady......or play hockey like Sid Crosby........I bet you would have a diff. outlook on it.
Agreed sign him or the Yankee's or Red Sox will..... He is worth what a team is willing to spend and they will pay him the money......
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10996
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Uh.....the Yankees Won't sign Albert. The Yankees have Mark Teixeira at 1B and already have a payroll that tops $200 million...The Red Sox might jump on the chance, but are just about maxed out on payroll @ $170 million a year. Plus they are set with Youkilis until 2013 and just picked up Adrian Gonzalez, and are working on a long term deal with him. So one way or another they wil be set up at 1B. Neither team will be signing him to a DL spot either. Albert is too valuable as a 1B to just let him hit, and I don't think #5 would be happy being a DL.
The Cubs will have the cash, along with the Mets, Braves, Dodgers, Oakland, and Angels. Not many teams will be able to afford Albert. The small markets might try try, but would only have him with a true AA team around him. He won't go for that either.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7742
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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I've come around on this. The Cards should make him the highest paid player but AP needs to come off his 10 year guaranteed stip....if in fact that is his position.
If AP were 28 right now I wouldn't mind a ten year deal.
If signed now he'll be 32 in year one.......he'll get a 13 +/- mil bonus over his scheduled salary this year....then take him up to his 40th with option years afterward and call it a day.
8 yr 240 mil...throw in some incentives for the big awards. If they lose him now on that they can then still pay more later after the season is over....they seem to prefer the wait longer pay more approach anyway.
Two things really bug me about this whole thing. One is the Holiday signing and it's relation to signing or not signing AP. And two....AP in a cubs uniform....my god.....
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6198
Loc: Missouri
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I'd say it is 75/25 that he isn't signed by Spring Training. If he holds to his word, it is a 50/50 proposition that the Cards can sign him in free agency, next off-season.
Forget all the BS and just look at this, as if you owned the Cardinals and had to make the call. First, it would be idiocy, at an unspeakable level to be on the hook for him or anyone at $28-$30 mil a year for ages 38+. Second, he is worth more to the Cards than anyone else. His established roots in the community, his history here and his overall marketing potential have the most value to the Cardinals. Why bid against yourself and overpay? If he doesn't sign, you will have a 32 year-old superstar on the open market. How much will he get? Will anyone offer him more than 6 or 7 years, at the big dollars? I would bet not.
If you can't sign him for 6-8 years, at a reasonable price tag ($27 - $30 mil per year avg.), let him play out his option. Remember, he runs a risk as well. A serious injury, lower production numbers, a lingering injury that lingers more (existing foot issue, existing elbow issue, etc...). If he appears to be in the initial stages of the backside of his career (realistically, he will be), no team is going to give him anywhere close to $30 mil for even 6 years.
Not signing Albert by Spring Training is not all bad. It may be that letting him become a free agent gives the Cardinals the best chance of signing him long term, at a reasonable price. It is entirely possible that he and his agent have over-played their hand.
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7742
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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Quote:
Not signing Albert by Spring Training is not all bad. It may be that letting him become a free agent gives the Cardinals the best chance of signing him long term, at a reasonable price. It is entirely possible that he and his agent have over-played their hand.
If they don't sign him I will hope for that but I do not think WAITING should be their #1 strategy for now for a couple of reasons.
The cubs have already proved themselves capable of sheer idiocy well beyond signing AP to a huge contract. They have more wasted misfires up there than North Korean missle tests. Also, this is AP we are talking about and I don't see a bad season coming up....albeit the unlikely injury as you say. Lastly...when was the last time you saw contract signings go DOWN in a years time?
They should have signed him LAST year....so now it should be THIS year imo. Next fall would be the equivalent of pulling on a backup parachute at 500 feet.
I want to see them put forth a solid offer that makes AP think long and hard. At this point I'm not sure if anything is going on between them.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6198
Loc: Missouri
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I'm with ya. It shouldn't be their #1 approach. They need to be trying like hell to sign him now. I'm just saying, what will the situation be like 11 months from now? If he has another AP type year and stays healthy, it will be ugly. No question. However, if he has an off year, gets injured, has a scandal (steroids?) or goodness know what else, the Cardinals may find themselves in a better position than they are now. That isn't a gamble I would want to take but it may be a gamble they have to take...
I have heard rumor that they are having trouble getting ANY offer on the table from either side. Nobody wants to play their hand, for fear of putting themselves in the weaker position. As a rule, the person that makes the first offer, puts himself at a disadvantage in any negotiation (assuming both parties are equally equipped to negotiate). The word is putting terms on the table is the biggest hangup right now. Quite frankly, I find that hard to believe but you never know. This is negotiating at a level most of us can't even begin to comprehend... Maybe that's why we're all so good at it on the internet...
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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triton
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 778
Loc: ??????????????
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Would you all trade AP for 3 guys who hit 280 with 18-20 hrs and drives in 80 rbi a season? Just saying if you put all 3 together it would still be better on an average than what AP will put up. I say trade him, course I dont know where you are going to find those 3 players. I do remember the Oakland A's years ago had very few players who hit for an average but all had high rbi totals.
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Roger Clemen's wife's personal trainer
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10996
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Triton.......try to stay in 2011. Pujols has a full no trade protection. ThT option is out. Plus..........there aren't 3 players on one team outside of the Yankees I would trade him for......and if we can't afford Albert how do we afford what we get
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7742
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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There's a reported anonymous source saying the two party's are far apart.
It is speculated that the Cardinals are concerned that AP & Company will just use their best offer to set the table for the Fall. I don't get this concern because for one it's pretty damn hard to sign a guy if you are too skeered to make an offer and two it is contrary to what AP has said all along that he is very open to remaining a Cardinal.
I keep going back to the Holiday signing. Makes no sense to sign Matt only to watch AP walk.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10996
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Matt Holliday has announced he will defer a couple million a year to get the deal with Albert done. Even he knows that the Cardinal fans won't be happy with him if Albert does not get signed.....since there are several fingers pointing at him now with his huge signing last year.
5 days and counting to get the deal done and I still dont' think either side is close to a deal.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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IIFID
Bond....Timmy Bond
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 8067
Loc: Nipawin, Saskatchewan
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Which will happen first?
- AP and the Cardinals agree to a contract
- Nfl players and owners agree on a CBA?
Will either be done before 3/1/11?  
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Thought for the day; “It’s impossible to think outside of the box when all you do is think about getting inside of the box.”
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6198
Loc: Missouri
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Quote:
H2ODOG said:
Matt Holliday has announced he will defer a couple million a year to get the deal with Albert done. Even he knows that the Cardinal fans won't be happy with him if Albert does not get signed.....since there are several fingers pointing at him now with his huge signing last year.
5 days and counting to get the deal done and I still dont' think either side is close to a deal.
Hard telling what the motivation is behind Holliday's comments. At first glance, it appears to be a sincere attempt to "help." But let's be realistic. Any deferring of money is done with full interest and only delays the expense. When the owners of the team are billionaires (collectively), you hardly need to have a player defer a few million to make a deal happen. Maybe KC or Pittsburgh may need that but not the Cardinals. And let's not forget who the agent is for Holliday. If a Scott Boris player does or says anything related to his contract or deal, in any way, you cab rest assured, it was well thought out and calculated. That dude does nothing without a full plan, in place.
So a few things to consider. First, what angle is Boris playing? And you know there is an angle. Second, this makes Holliday look very good to STL fans. If they don't sign Pujols, this will become Holliday's team and he knows it. Anything he can do to endear himself to the fans, is just good business. Lastly, there can be no doubt that Holliday is going to be a better player with Pujols in the line-up for the next 5+ years...
Hard to figure what's going on with this one. But I would bet a pile of money there's more to it than we see on the surface...
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7742
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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It is what it is...there's nothing untoward about Matt wanting AP....he has 10 good reasons to see him a Cardinal so he spoke up. It's good because it puts a little more pressure on BOTH parties to find some logic in all this. If he wants interest on the deferred cash then it means little but I wasn't thinking that way. You're probably right though.
Cards need to belly up to the table and end the posturing. The 'ol put up or shut up. As sad as it is, 6 for 200 seems like a win win to me.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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