last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7737
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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.....send Jon Jay packing and pick up a solid bench player for the infield.
Heyward deal in the works??
And TLR wants out of the basement. Has he spent enough? Wow.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6193
Loc: Missouri
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Jay move was a good one. Not a JJ hater but the trade was good for the Cards. It essentially replaces Kozma with a guy that can actually hit and with occasional pop. And they did it from an area of surplus, even if they don't land Heyward.
If the Heyward sweepstakes become just that, a sweepstakes, the Cards won't get him. All it takes is one team to offer the crazy dollars and it will be over quickly... He's a good player but I struggle with the idea he is worth $20-$25 mil a year, for 7 or more years. And word is he wants an opt-out in years 3 or 4. That could actually help the Cards, if he signs and wants out for a longer deal. They wouldn't have a Pujols-like deal, paying an aging star.
Arizona will be in the race this year, to be sure. They were already a good offensive team. Adding Greinke and Miller upgrades that staff substantially. The only concern is both of those hurlers have the head worms to one degree or another. Can they both just pitch and not be worried or distracted by any of the distractions they've had in the past?
The biggest concern for Cards fans should be starting pitching. You can bet the house on at least one major starting pitching injury and two or three is not out of the question. They need depth badly. Counting on rookies or unproven guys is a huge risk!!
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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wuchang
spiritual advisor and gatekeeper to the Spirit World
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5209
Loc: uphill
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Andy....I imagine if we gave you 6 months to work off some of that geezer body, you could hit better than Pete Kozma
just sayin
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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We could dig up Ty Cobb, put a bat in his bony damn hands, and he could outhit Kozma.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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wuchang
spiritual advisor and gatekeeper to the Spirit World
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5209
Loc: uphill
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Martha Stewart can hit better than Pete Kozma
Bet that
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IIFID
Bond....Timmy Bond
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 8066
Loc: Nipawin, Saskatchewan
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Martha Stewart's mom can hit better than Pete kzma..
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Thought for the day; “It’s impossible to think outside of the box when all you do is think about getting inside of the box.”
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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A limp wristed skirt wearing nancy boy from Queer Eye for the Straight guy could hit better than Pete Kozma.....but then again, those hands are pretty used to balls being thrown at them and doing something with it.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Heyward gone. Can't say I'll miss him. His glove was great but his bat hasn't lived up to the hype since he came into the big leagues. He was supposed to be a .300+ hitter, 30 HR's, 100 rbi, and 40+ SB a year guy. Instead he is a .260 hitter who can't hit the high fastball people love to feed him. Hell, we got that with Phambimo with a lot less money Time to chase Chris Davis or Gordon from KC. That would make the entire west side throw up in their mouth seeing him in a STL uniform.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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wuchang
spiritual advisor and gatekeeper to the Spirit World
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5209
Loc: uphill
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JHey went to Chiraq for 23 million/year for 8 years....
that was Pujols money crazy
I have to laugh at all the sports Talking heads going on about Theo etc......
ain't hard to play poker if you can buy the hand on every deal and it looks like the Cubs have deeeeeep pockets or they intend to price the Cards out of the market.
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wuchang
spiritual advisor and gatekeeper to the Spirit World
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5209
Loc: uphill
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Gordon is a bit long in the tooth and he probably wants a multi year/longish contract
Davis??? You think Matheny could live with not trotting Adams out there day after day?
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Throw Davis in the OF if needed. After watching the famine or famine O last year, the cards need a strong bat.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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griffin
administrator
Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 9625
Loc: the most dangerous city in Ame...
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We need a goalie.
griffin
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"The Irish are one race of people for whom psychoanalysis is of no use whatsoever." - Sigmund Freud
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7737
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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Quote:
H2ODOG said:
Heyward gone. Can't say I'll miss him. His glove was great but his bat hasn't lived up to the hype since he came into the big leagues. He was supposed to be a .300+ hitter, 30 HR's, 100 rbi, and 40+ SB a year guy. Instead he is a .260 hitter who can't hit the high fastball people love to feed him. Hell, we got that with Phambimo with a lot less money Time to chase Chris Davis or Gordon from KC. That would make the entire west side throw up in their mouth seeing him in a STL uniform.
He batted .293 in 2015.
The Cubs offered less than the Cardinals. Word is a lot less. Cards lost their best defensive player to a team that needed exactly that. He doesn't have to be some savior for them like he did for us, just play the way he played last year and the Cubs will be thrilled. And at 26 years old, I wouldn't bet against his offensive game getting even better over the next 4 years.
So the Cards make huge plays for 2 guy this off season, thought they had both of them, and got skunked twice.
They need to get the rest of this winter right.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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HAUS
member for now
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4053
Loc: Paradise
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what was the length of the stl offer? 10 yrs?
the guy was a pretty decent player, but he wasn't 200 million decent..
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Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day..
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Dude......seriously be had a caeeee year at the plate with his average. He can't hit the high faat ball and as a FUKIN outfielder hit 13 HR's. Our middle infielders hit more. Grichuk who missed 60 more games than Heyward hit 4 mkre HR's. Piscotty hit 5 less in100 less games. Hell even Phambimo was on pace to outhit Heyward and he played like a month.
When you pay a dude $23 million a year he better earn a million per HR or hit .330. Piscotty and Grichuk provide way more pop at the plate for way less money. I don't care how damn young Heyward is. He isn't the badass player billed to be. Cards have talent in the outfield and will find someone to fill the void Holiday is getting to create when he retires.
Lackey also had a career year. Best ERA EVER in his career by far and pitched close to a record number for him.......and he's 37. He has to pitch lights out. He made $500k last year. I'll take a 2015 Lackey, but I'm not sure he has 2 good years in him. His velocity was down in 2014 and wasn't there last year. Maybe he can throw high fastballs at Heyward so he can practice hitting something he can catch up to
Cards will be fine. We were supposed to fail after Pu$ols left. Have won 21 playoff games since he left. Been to 3 NLCS games and 4 straight playoff years. Pu$ols hasn't won a playoff game since he left STL
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Quote:
last_stand said:
Quote:
H2ODOG said:
Heyward gone. Can't say I'll miss him. His glove was great but his bat hasn't lived up to the hype since he came into the big leagues. He was supposed to be a .300+ hitter, 30 HR's, 100 rbi, and 40+ SB a year guy. Instead he is a .260 hitter who can't hit the high fastball people love to feed him. Hell, we got that with Phambimo with a lot less money Time to chase Chris Davis or Gordon from KC. That would make the entire west side throw up in their mouth seeing him in a STL uniform.
He batted .293 in 2015.
If you want a left handed batter who hits .290, 15-17 Hr's, strikes out 80+ times......we have that in Matt Adams for under a million a year. And Adams has a better slugging %,
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6193
Loc: Missouri
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Last year at this time both the Nationals and Padres had "won" the off-season and were going to have to duke it out in the NLCS to see who would claim the WS trophy. See how that worked out?
Come August, the Cards will be right in the thick of it, possibly even with the Division lead. The Cubs have spent a lot of money and have a darn good team on paper. But how many teams have been declared "the team to beat" in the off-season and don't even make the playoffs? The DeWitt/Mozeliak combo has been pretty good the last several years. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt...
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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The O7' and 08'Flubs won the division, and put together the "team" on paper. Ramirez, Zambradouche, Soto, Soriano, Castro, Garza.......and in 2009-20011 they finished near the bottom of the Central. People are mad because Heyward left for a "contender" like the Cards weren't going to contend once he left. Just like Pujol$, he left for a "better team" and a "winning ballclub" That hasn't worked out the way he liked. I would rather have Shelby Miller signing a big contract last year during the season, instead of Heyward on the club. The depth of Waino, Wacha, Martinez, and Miller would have been a great staff. Hell Lynn pitched his ass off the last few years. I'll take a 15 year win season every year from that sucker.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7737
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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Quote:
sptsman said:
Last year at this time both the Nationals and Padres had "won" the off-season and were going to have to duke it out in the NLCS to see who would claim the WS trophy. See how that worked out?
Come August, the Cards will be right in the thick of it, possibly even with the Division lead. The Cubs have spent a lot of money and have a darn good team on paper. But how many teams have been declared "the team to beat" in the off-season and don't even make the playoffs? The DeWitt/Mozeliak combo has been pretty good the last several years. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt...
Sure the cubs can fall down. Have some injuries for a change. Watch Arrietta pitch like he did his first 7 years in the majors. Have the 38 year old Lackey get shelled. All that can happen. Hope it does.
But that ain't a way to run a rail road. I didn't go after Price and Heyward, Mo did. Two big swings and misses no matter how you slice it. If that's somehow good news in the voodoo world better let him in on it.
My point is, here on, with what's left on the board, he has to get it right. We have lost 2 key players and we have 4 core players one year older 3 of whom missed a ton of time last year with injury and never recovered to produce.
Mo knows all this. Which is why he went hard after Price and Heyward.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Mo isn't going after another outfielder per his interview today. They are going after pitching. The starting outfielders are Holliday, Grichuk, and Piscotty. Rumor is Mark Buehrle is wanting to come back home and finish out his career in STL He would be a great arm in the rotation, especially a great LH pitcher to throw out there. Solid guy who eats up innings, wins a lot of games, and has a good K/BB ratio. He would be a good FA pickup.
Waino will be back in full form. Wacha is a solid #2. I forgot about Lynn being gone for the year with surgery. Martinez will be a solid performer again this year. If and that's a big damn if, IF Garcia doesn't strain his vagina or pull a toenail, he would be a solid LH guy to pitch every 4-5 days, especially if he pitches like he did the second half of the season. See what happens with the farm guys in spring training. There are some good ones down there.
2015 was a bad year for injuries in STL. Epic really. Holliday is old but will hopefully have a typical year at the plate. Adams will be back and will be the sold LH batter he is. If we stay healthy, it should be a good year. Molina is old as hell in catchers years, and maybe he can get some rest with the new backup in town.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7737
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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If that interview is their real plan and not some kind of ruse to get another big bat for a position player then good luck with that Mo. I am skeptical because it makes little sense.
How is it if you are willing to spend 200 million on one of two players and then since you don't get either you shut down your big FA money? When in fact you need it more than ever? When your franchise is the most profitable in all of baseball?
And I'm not talking for the sake of it. This team needs to make some moves for more power and more pitching. There are still a FEW viable guys out there. Buerhle would be a good addition. But how about Gordon? Holiday should not be in left field, he gets hurt all the time and he is terrible with his defense. Put him at first base and bring a Gordon on the team.
Cards barely played 500 ball after the all star break. We all saw the post season. So take that team and add another year of wear and lose 3 key players and hope for the best? That's plan B??
As for the cubs, not sure how you could be set up any better. And they are not done yet either. Hope it all blows up cause so far that appears to be Mo's plan.
And don't forget the Pirates. I guess they have to blow up too.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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HAUS
member for now
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4053
Loc: Paradise
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if you read between the lines, it sounds a lot like Mo got his feelings hurt these past couple weeks, kinda like when the hot trampy chick dissed him at prom...
he's a nice dude, does a decent job at what he does, but he sounds like a politician when he talks.. I wouldn't believe anything he says in public..
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Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day..
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Quote:
last_stand said:
If that interview is their real plan and not some kind of ruse to get another big bat for a position player then good luck with that Mo. I am skeptical because it makes little sense.
How is it if you are willing to spend 200 million on one of two players and then since you don't get either you shut down your big FA money? When in fact you need it more than ever? When your franchise is the most profitable in all of baseball?
And I'm not talking for the sake of it. This team needs to make some moves for more power and more pitching. There are still a FEW viable guys out there. Buerhle would be a good addition. But how about Gordon? Holiday should not be in left field, he gets hurt all the time and he is terrible with his defense. Put him at first base and bring a Gordon on the team.
Cards barely played 500 ball after the all star break. We all saw the post season. So take that team and add another year of wear and lose 3 key players and hope for the best? That's plan B??
As for the cubs, not sure how you could be set up any better. And they are not done yet either. Hope it all blows up cause so far that appears to be Mo's plan.
And don't forget the Pirates. I guess they have to blow up too.
Let me get this straight.....you want a guy with an IQ slightly higher than Forrest Gump, who has played exactly 1614 games at the MLB level, and ALL of them at LF........and now you want dude to play first base. He is too old and slow to learn that position. LF is tough enough for him. Ball hit to you. Chase ball down. Throw ball to infielder. I don't think Holliday is the dumbest guy in baseball, but I wonder who ties his shoes between innings. Holliday isn't going to play another position.
Then you want to go after Alex Gordon.......why? You get a guy who misses more time than Holliday, with a few less years on him, so he can play the outfield. Gordon can at least play the infield and has done it at the MLB level. Holliday hasn't played the infield since he was 8. If you want to go after a first baseman, go get one. Chris Davis is available. Go big or stay at home. Why get a half ass option. Get the best available.
And if you want an outfielder, go get Gonzalez in Colorado. Trade Adams, get Chris Davis and you trade one LH batter for a way better LH batter at first. Pick up Gonzalez from CO for another LH dude, and you get a guy who can hit and play any OF position.  Alex Gordon is not the answer. He is a slower version of Heyward.
Perhaps you should check your stats on the 2nd half of the season also. Cards were 56-33 in the first half. An unbelievable pace. 2nd half they finished 44-29. 15 games above .500. It was a .603 pace in case you were wondering.
Take the team, add another year of wear, and lose 3 key players. The damn off season isn't over Francis......RELAX. Lynn is gone and Lackey is gone. Pick up Buerhle and that solves the old guy who eats up innings issue of Lackey. Find one more solid guy to give you innings and 10-15 wins. That replaces Lynn. Heyward is solved with the outfield we have. We get way more pop in our bats without him in the lineup. Piscotty and Grichuk aren't slow old dudes and hit with more pop than Alex Gordon for way less money. They aren't GG guys, but they aren't a liability out there either. OF guys have never been an issue in STL. They grow them on trees at the AAA level. 
The Cubs are spending their way to win a championship. Lets see if Madden can make all of it work out. He has a ton of egos to deal with and are the favorites to win it all. Let some of his key guys go down and see how long it takes to get in the hot seat if he isn't in first place at the AS break.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7737
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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I didn't know Gonzalez was a free agent. So now you're trading for him, not so simple.
You want Holiday in left over Gordon have at it. So does Matheney. Holiday has one more year left and he's gone. He can't play first any worse than he does left imo. Gordon or Upton coming on fills in that position nicely if you ask me.... for half the money of Heyward and the next few years forward.
I have no problem with counting on Piscotty and Grichuk, but yes, they are not proven top half players....yet. There is risk.
As for Davis, Mo has supposedly ruled that out. Or so he says.
Anyway, according to Mo NONE of this is happening aside from obtaining a pitcher and non budget busting position players.
I'll wait and see where it all goes when the dust settles. I still say he goes for one big position player.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10993
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Quote:
last_stand said:
I didn't know Gonzalez was a free agent. So now you're trading for him, not so simple.
You want Holiday in left over Gordon have at it. So does Matheney. Holiday has one more year left and he's gone. He can't play first any worse than he does left imo. Gordon or Upton coming on fills in that position nicely if you ask me.... for half the money of Heyward and the next few years forward.
I have no problem with counting on Piscotty and Grichuk, but yes, they are not proven top half players....yet. There is risk.
As for Davis, Mo has supposedly ruled that out. Or so he says.
Anyway, according to Mo NONE of this is happening aside from obtaining a pitcher and non budget busting position players.
I'll wait and see where it all goes when the dust settles. I still say he goes for one big position player.
I didn't realize it was so tuff to trade for an outfielder. Who knew it was so hard????????
Go back 7 years and compare Holliday and Gordon.......who do you think has played in more games? I'll let you in on a secret. Its not the KC guy. Hell go back 9 years for the entire career of Gordon. Holliday has still played in more games.
Gordon missed 1/3 of last year. 2009 he missed 70% of the games. 2010 55% of the games. You want to get a guy who has missed significant time in 1/3 of his MLB career. Holliday missed a lot of games last year for his leg. In 2011 he missed games for the same injury, but roughly 20 games. 2013 another 15 days for a quad. I'll still take a guy who has missed less time and is a bigger bat over a guy who has missed more time that Holliday, with a weaker bat. We missed offense last year. Holliday gives the lineup more pop.
You act like Holliday gives is a huge liablity in the field. Dude has had 21 errors in LF while wearing a Caridnals uniform. 7 years of playing and 21 errors. Not a huge number. Sure its not the GG winning numbers of Gordon, who had 11 errors in 6 seasons. I won't even list his infield numbers, because Gordon sucked at 3rd.
Upton gives you more at the plate than Gordon, but makes Holliday look like a Platinum Glove Winner in the field. Upgrade the pitching, and get another guy at first. Worry about filling the outfield next season or mid year at the trade deadline.
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It’s better to be hated for who you are, instead of loved for who you aren’t.
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