wuchang
spiritual advisor and gatekeeper to the Spirit World
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4936
Loc: uphill
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Well, the Birds finally played bad enough to get them fired
Train wreck syndrome means I will watch them tomorrow
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7660
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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And MO lives to see another day.
Dewitt should have swung that ax one more time.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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fastman
member
Reged: 01/01/06
Posts: 1842
Loc: missouri
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"A man will heedlessly charge a cannon, but puke at the sight of 6 inches of steel." Jim Bowie
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6075
Loc: Missouri
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MLB, like all pro sports, is a results driven business. Matheny was not getting the results and trending the wrong direction. He also seemed to have lost control of his team. Going back to the dust-up with Yadi last year, there have been way too many clubhouse/off-the field issues...
Hate to see anyone lose their job but can't say I'm upset about this move. I think it is likely that 2018 is a lost season, barring a few key trades and a miraculous turnaround.
Let's hope they find the right guy to fill that role for the long haul. If the Reds are dumb enough not to give Riggleman that job on a permanent basis, the Cards can grab him for a few years. Not sure they want a 65 year-old as their new Manager. Maybe someone that can go 10 years, if it works out.
Who's next?
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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Bubba
strangesly aroused
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3824
Loc: Lemmingstan
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I hear Bobby Cox is on the short list... 
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God Bless our Troops!
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wuchang
spiritual advisor and gatekeeper to the Spirit World
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4936
Loc: uphill
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Quote:
Bubba said:
I hear Bobby Cox is on the short list...
If they had wanted to have a walking dead man manage, they wouldn't have fired Matheny 
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IIFID
Bond....Timmy Bond
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 8010
Loc: Nipawin, Saskatchewan
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Where is Dawg and why isn't he celebrating this? He's been calling for this for years!
I'm not sure a combination of the best attributes of Sparky Anderson, Connie Mack, Earl Weaver and Whitey Herzog could manage to make this dysfunctional group of me-first players a playoff team..
They have the most errors in MLB and the worst fielding percentage as of now in the National League. They do not play smart baseball. This is not the Cardinal Way.. The question is.. is it Matheny or the players the GM has assembled?
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Thought for the day; “It’s impossible to think outside of the box when all you do is think about getting inside of the box.”
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wuchang
spiritual advisor and gatekeeper to the Spirit World
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4936
Loc: uphill
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I imagine Dawg is taking Texas money somewhere but anyone that thinks Matheny is some baseball genius has drank too much of the Cardinal kool-aid
I think the only players still on the roster from 2011 are Matt Carpenter and Yadier Molina (a wild card team btw.....and ask Bubba about the major choke the Braves did in August--- Bobby Cox was NOT the manager btw)
It is a legit question about who is on the roster but I think Matheny asked for some of the deadwood that is on this one
Their wanting to 'compete' every year means no tank and rebuild like the Cubs and the Astros
and the fact that they tend to be cheap and go for 'low hanging fruit' and "want to keep plenty of dry powder" and all that other management talk while they build Ball Park Village
Plus they haven't been real smart with some contracts and some extensions
Regardless, unless they decide to ship a bunch out, eat some of those contracts and bring up the boys in Memphis-- what we have been seeing is probably what we will get in the 2nd half
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7660
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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Mo's finger prints are all over the steady decline of the past 3 years. Matheney is in no way a manager that can compensate for the bad baseball, on the contrary. He made matters worse and finally lost his clubhouse in the process. It was the only way MM was going to get fired, so it had to be in order to get better, but much of this is at Mo's feet as well.
I'm assuming Oquendo was asked if he wanted the reins to finish out. Have no idea how Shildt will manage with the X and O's but he does have excellent relations with the younger players who have come up the line and maybe some of the vets will pull their heads out.
If they don't know yet, they have a few weeks to see if they should be selling. Un-chartered territory for many moons. And they don't have much to offer but I would start with the players who can't play defense who also happen to probably be their biggest trade chips any way.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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wuchang
spiritual advisor and gatekeeper to the Spirit World
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4936
Loc: uphill
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Besides J Martinez........who?
You gonna trade Carpenter or Gyrko?
DeJong ain't another Wizard--probably the future 3rd baseman
Wong is inconsistent but when he is on,he covers some ground--if he ever learns to hit to opposite field.....
Ozuna could get the nickname of a former Card left fielder SKATES but they just did his deal-- don't see them moving him just yet
Fowler's contract is a BIG pill to swallow
I guess you could trade most of the bullpen
What starter besides maybe Weaver?
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10929
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I’ve been walleye fishing, so I’m sorry for my delay. Walleye are a fish you westside knuckleheads have a hard time catching in MO. Sorry for not keeping up. Wu......it’s OK money. Been that way for several years now.
Now to the Cardinals. I was at Friday’s game. I’ve been to hundreds of Cards games, and that was the most unenthusiastic game I’ve ever been to. I almost fell asleep. We left before the 7th inning stretch. Even with free beer and all we could eat, they still couldn’t keep me at the game. Matheny should have been gone 2 years ago. Mo should be gone. He signed all this dickheads.
Holland can go back to KC.......although he won’t be saving any games. Those bastards are heading to 100 losses and nickle beer night. Y’all about a chit show. Oh how far has new money fallen.
Bud Norris is a cheese eating rat snitch. He can go to hell
Tuepukievalhalla needs to be taken out back and shot. Take Waino out back when you go to put Pukievalaballa out of our misery.
Cecil gets $6 million a year to throw BP
Lyons is a joke
The entire bullpen needs to go except Hicks
Fowler is a waste of $18 million a year. It’s evident Mo ideas trying to fill the void from another workers outfielder in Hayward. Why he thinks a career .265 hitter who hits a dozen dingers a year is worth nearly $20 million is beyond everyone but Mo. Tavaras death made Mo scramble and it shows. He has gone after chit since that day
Carpenter is finally coming out of his 17 month slump. Maybe getting Mabry out of his head will help.
Wong needs to go. We don’t need a guy who goes until June without an extra base but RBI. He can’t hit for average, or power, or the other way. His D isn’t worth keeping.
DeJong still can’t a breaking ball but will come along. Play him daily.
Munoz needs to be playing daily. Until he shows other wise, he is in the starting line up.
Jose Martinez might be what we need at 1st and he might not be. Jury is out. If he can hit 30+ HR a year and hit near .300,.......he gets the job.
Carpenter or Jed gyrko can split time at 3rd. I still think we should go after Machado, trade Carpenter or Gyrko or both. If Jo Martinez is your 1st baseman and hits 30 dingers, where do you put Matt or Gyrko every day. Either one can shift around the infield, but i don’t think there is room of Machado gets traded for.
The cardinals need a couple solid 30+ HR guys. SOLID ONES not iffy ones. Ozuna I hunk is getting messed up by Mabry. Dude is havejng a. As hear and I don’t think will stay there.
Bader needs to be playing. Kid can play. Is fast can hit. Fowler wouldn’t see the field with Bader on the team. Let me know if you need anything else. I have chit to get ready for another walleye trip.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10929
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/bas...0714-story.html
This is part of the problem in the clubhouse. MM was so self conscious, and didn’t trust people.......he needed a snitch I’m sure more problems will come to light soon.
Snitches get stitches.
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wuchang
spiritual advisor and gatekeeper to the Spirit World
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 4936
Loc: uphill
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From Dawg's linked article
Quote:
another controversy after Mozeliak’s recent questioning of Fowler’s “energy and effort.” Fowler, in Chicago last week to play the White Sox, admitted playing under Maddon provided a more “laid-back” atmosphere than in St. Louis.
If Fowler was any more laid back, they would be holding a mirror up to his mouth to make sure he is still breathing.
Yeah,Bader looks like the real deal---
even Jimmy Baseball thinks he will be a better than average player, maybe even a star.
Matheny wanted veteran guys both as position players and in the bullpen which lead to the 'low hanging fruit' of Cecil,Gregerson and Holland.
For these alone.....somebody needed to be fired
I'm sure we could point to the Hayward deal,the Leake deal, the Peralta deal and others as part of the decline but they wanted veterans....
(Hey Mo signed them for cheap money and Matheny managed them and nothing much was said by the kool-aid brigade known as the StL Post Dispatch and the TV sports guys)
At this point....bring up the Memphis Redbirds and send the major league team to Memphis
Positive note...as bad as it is--
we could be watching KC baseball....
Every time I get a text from Mel,I think he deserves better
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10929
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Fowlers skinny ass isn’t even batting his weight. I’d rather see Kohn Kay in the line up than Fowler. Hell, I bet ET Willie McGee could bat .250 and he’s got a AARP card.
Bader is fast. Kids reminds me of a Mike Trout or Bryce Harper guy. Wants to play. Likes to play. Fast. Always hustling. He just needs time to prove himself at the plate. I’m not saying he is the net Mike Trout, but he sure hustles like him when he is out there, without the Harper attitude.
Mo needs to pack his crap up and leave also. He signed all these has beens. Even if they are the people MM wanted,
He should have told MM to put down the crack pipe, and we aren’t signing that washed up bastard.
New Money has fallen apart so damn hard the west side boys can’t even bring themselves to post. It’s a back alley back seat of a Cadillac abortion. So much for the staying power.
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7660
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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If they don't come around and quick, they need to think about selling what they can.
Martinez
Carpenter
Wong or Munez
Ozuna if someone wants him
Pham if some one wants him
Gyrko if some one wants him
Any vet reliever but Norris
Wacha
Put out the for sale sign and do what you can do. Some of these guys have value. Won't move them all but teams in the hunt might be interested in some of them. They need to move people before we can add. Get picks as well as young prospects too and start over.
Build for defense. Third basemen at third, a guy at first that can actually play first.
Hate to lose Martinez, but it probably has to be.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10929
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Quote:
last_stand said:
If they don't come around and quick, they need to think about selling what they can.
Martinez
Carpenter
Wong or Munez
Ozuna if someone wants him
Pham if some one wants him
Gyrko if some one wants him
Any vet reliever but Norris
Wacha
Put out the for sale sign and do what you can do. Some of these guys have value. Won't move them all but teams in the hunt might be interested in some of them. They need to move people before we can add. Get picks as well as young prospects too and start over.
Build for defense. Third basemen at third, a guy at first that can actually play first.
Hate to lose Martinez, but it probably has to be.
So a forkin fire sale to get rid of all the talent and start all over, so we can make the playoffs in 2022???? Are you smoking crack??
KEEP NORRIS......maybe you should read up on him. Since he was MM's biatch in the clubhouse and the snitch, I'd say he needs to be the first to go.
Get rid of Wacha, Hicks, Martinez......you do realize we have TWO of them, Munoz, Ozuna, Gyrko and Carpenter with no one to replace them right now.......you are basically clearing out the ENTIRE starting lineup.
Clear out the lineup, including the good players we have.......get all the AAA and AA help we can get and play for 2022. Dude....seriously, stay out of the dispensaries and stop dipping the rolled stuff in formaldehyde. You went from making some changes to just going the Royals way. Quitting for a few years. Maybe baseball isn't for you. Go talk to Sportsman about soccer. I'm sure they could use some more fans.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10929
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I can only assume you mean Carlos Martinez also. So you ship out your 2 time AS pitcher sir a few prospects..........where exactly do you find another quality starting pitcher who throws 100 mph LATE into his starts........for $11.5 million a year..........for the next 3 seasons. That’s a steal in today’s market. Fork........we pay $20 million a year for 2 bullpen clowns alone, who shouldn’t make $2 a game.
11.5 million a year for 3 years for a starter is a steal.....and you want to ship him out for some AAA guys. Stay outta Eddies Edibles
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7660
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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bwaaaaaaaaaaaa.........Dude, hope you take your meds today. I know you forgot yesterday.
Said IF they don't come around. As always the case, they might.
JOSE Martinez, the same Jose that has been mentioned as trade chip forever now. Pretty obvious for most.
Did not mean to say Hicks, got me there.
Said you won't move them all
We don't just have 2 of Martinez, we have two of a lot of things including bad D at first and third.
From what I can glean from your rant posts, you have your opinion, now I get to have mine.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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H2ODOG
the one who never tires
Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 10929
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Have someone who isn't drunk in your house explain how a calendar works. Two weeks left in the trade deadline. Quick....ya nothing in baseball happens that fast. Not even the 2011 Braves Abortion.
Considering I read 2 articles last night saying how great of trade bait Carlos Martinez would be, I'm not the only person wondering which Martinez. Its obvious only to the voices in your head. The same voices who said to keep NORRIS of all forking people.
Go to bed. You're drunk.
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6075
Loc: Missouri
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Quote:
H2ODOG said:
Have someone who isn't drunk in your house explain how a calendar works. Two weeks left in the trade deadline. Quick....ya nothing in baseball happens that fast. Not even the 2011 Braves Abortion.
Considering I read 2 articles last night saying how great of trade bait Carlos Martinez would be, I'm not the only person wondering which Martinez. Its obvious only to the voices in your head. The same voices who said to keep NORRIS of all forking people.
Go to bed. You're drunk.
Not trading Jose Martinez, if made a decent offer (likely by and AL team) would be a huge mistake. He is an above average hitter that will level off once MLB pitching catches up to him. He is a liability on defense that the Cardinals simply can't afford. We're not talking about a few errors. We're talking about an absolutely terrible defender. If you're the '39 Yankees or the '42 Cardinals, you can work around that. The 2018 and 2019 Cardinals can't.
Here is a little irony... His father was Carlos Martinez and was the batter that hit the home run off Jose Canseco's head in '93. It is not that far of a stretch to think he could have a home run hit off his head, as bad as he is defensively.
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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IIFID
Bond....Timmy Bond
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 8010
Loc: Nipawin, Saskatchewan
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Even more ironic is that he was a "New Money" minor leaguer before coming to the Redbirds. I'd guess that alone should be reason for the haters to demand he is traded.. 
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Thought for the day; “It’s impossible to think outside of the box when all you do is think about getting inside of the box.”
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sptsman
member
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 6075
Loc: Missouri
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Quote:
IIFID said:
Even more ironic is that he was a "New Money" minor leaguer before coming to the Redbirds. I'd guess that alone should be reason for the haters to demand he is traded..
On the contrary... The Royals have provided some great players to the rest of the league for years now... 
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"Hunts are best measured by the endurance of the memories they produce..."
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7660
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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Quote:
H2ODOG said:
Have someone who isn't drunk in your house explain how a calendar works. Two weeks left in the trade deadline. Quick....ya nothing in baseball happens that fast. Not even the 2011 Braves Abortion.
Considering I read 2 articles last night saying how great of trade bait Carlos Martinez would be, I'm not the only person wondering which Martinez. Its obvious only to the voices in your head. The same voices who said to keep NORRIS of all forking people.
Go to bed. You're drunk.
Yeah, two Martine's on staff, one talked about for months to get moved, the other our best pitcher, so you go off on a rant on the best pitcher, and i'm the drunk.
Trade Hicks? Where did I say that? And I'm drunk.
Not a guy on that list i wouldn't move to UPGRADE this team.
Like I said, you got yours, I got mine. All the BS drama you throw is a joke.
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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last_stand
the gay card thrower Call Me Ragnar
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 7660
Loc: anywhere but "HomeofToto"
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Hup!
Hey, yup...........put both on the list.
bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Sometimes you got it sometimes you get got.
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IIFID
Bond....Timmy Bond
Reged: 12/15/05
Posts: 8010
Loc: Nipawin, Saskatchewan
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Another fine defensive effort by the Cards last night..   DeJong is not a MLB caliber shortstop on defense. Carpenter didn't help him at first either..
And add in some of the other bonehead plays (don't bother checking Heyward on first for example) and this is not the Cardinal team baseball they've played since Whitey ball - strong defensive, smart base running, good pitching and timely hitting. They are doing none of those things. It started to show a few cracks a few years ago. Then last year it was just plain baaad and this year it is worse. Did they change coaches/instructors in the minors? 
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Thought for the day; “It’s impossible to think outside of the box when all you do is think about getting inside of the box.”
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