CafeOutdoors.com The way it was...the way it always will be!!!

Trading Post >> Political Forum

Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


The perfect agenda
      #125143 - 11/08/07 01:45 AM

Abolish the income tax
replace with the Fair Tax
Cut the Departments of...Education, Housing and Urban Development, Commerce (keep NOAA put it in Interior Dept.)
Sell a third of the national forests, cut a third of the employees
Sell BLM land, cut department
Increase military spending and recruitment until we have 1 million more troops
increase border patrol
Increase energy exploration to include a full palette of fossil, nuclear, solar, wind, biofuels and geothermal, remove nation's reliance on hydro electric.
Take out dams that destroy anadramous fish populations while adding to the nation's ability to replace the power through alternative sources such as nuclear, wind, natural gas, coal. Only keep dams where recreational and navigational uses of the waterway far outweigh the benefits that would be there if anadramous fish were allowed to prosper.
Cut farm subsidy
Increase free trade agreements.
Increase ties with Canada for oil resources, stop Canada's rush to sell its oil to China.
nationwide tort reform
encourage home power systems that are self-generating and self-sufficient
Deport illegal aliens, make it a mandate for local jurisdictions
Privatize social security completely making it an option for new hires, a former government system allowed to exist if individuals choose to stay in it, others can opt out and invest their money on their own or through a system managed by the social security administration that allows choice of investments.
Abolish Medicare, put in place medical savings accounts for the individual, end taking money from everyone so it can be mismanaged by the government for the benefit of no one. Give control to the individual.
American interstate system needs improvement and at least three more east-west routes and four more north-south routes, toll roads to pay for the improvements
encourage private train travel through incentives


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Ghost Hunter
member
*

Reged: 12/22/05
Posts: 690
Loc: Lost In The Jungle

Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125159 - 11/08/07 09:26 AM

Quit spending more then we take in. Balance the budget.

--------------------
Dont ask me I dont know either


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hellbender
member
**

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County

Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125180 - 11/08/07 10:50 AM

Another post with 30 seconds of thought.

--------------------
A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Hellbender]
      #125240 - 11/08/07 12:57 PM

cut the department of labor, too

Helliberal it is overthinking that has gotten our country into the quasi-socialist state that it is today


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hellbender
member
**

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County

Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125278 - 11/08/07 03:00 PM

Its not overthinking, hell its planned and has been since 1932, true conservatives have been the thorn in Democrats side. But true conservatives, unlike you, don't set and end their agendas in there own pockets.
Any form of government that includes a free populace has to be higher up the intelligence ladder than anarchy.
You believe your simple solutions are brilliant, but your lack of vision makes them more a simpletons plan.
Lets take your beloved "Sell the land" idea. Sell one third of the Forest Service land. So what is going to happen when the government dumps 322 million acres of land on the market? Even if it doesn't hit all at once it will destroy land prices for years. The congress will get a huge windfall, and if its Democratic they'll have enough money for socialist health care that there won't be any opposition to because it will be "Free". Thousands of western ranches will go under because they will no longer have grazing leases. The demand for illegals will skyrocket, they be needed to do all this thinning you claim private companies will do, of course they won't be American companies, they'll be Arabian, European, and Asians who buy it. Americans capital will take a hit keeping them out of the market, but not the foreign companies. Thats just the tip of the iceburg.
Great plan Liberty, certainly certifies your ignorance.

--------------------
A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Hellbender]
      #125284 - 11/08/07 03:27 PM

land in the west is over inflated to begin with due to the fact that government has tied up more than half the land out here

in case you are unaware the endangered species act has damn near killed most grazing operations out here already, I think there would be some serious interest in the opportunity to buy land so they don't have to spend time wondering when land will no longer be available to graze on because some damn inconsequential animal can't live next to livestock terds.

I love it when a so-called conservative fears freedom, it's why most of the damn Republicans are only five percent better than the damn Democrats

whatever you do don't change any of those things we railed against when they came up

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHA!!!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hellbender
member
**

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County

Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125299 - 11/08/07 04:06 PM

Quote:

in case you are unaware the endangered species act has damn near killed most grazing operations out here already




Bullchit, thats an old act. I know your anti buddies are suing right and left, but they haven't stopped grazing.
flatlanders like you have no idea how much land there is out there. Yea they're going to pay a lot of money, if they can get it, for land thats costing them $1.50 or so a head to graze on it, especially when much of it is 3 acres to the cow.

--------------------
A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
SwampFox
member
***

Reged: 12/13/05
Posts: 7970
Loc: Mid Mo

Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Hellbender]
      #125310 - 11/08/07 04:17 PM

60% of the land west of Denver is owned by the government.
Don't call BS till you check it out for yourself.

I'm a constitutionalist. That makes me part conservitave, part liberal, and part liberitarian with the bottom line being that the federal government is too powerfull and is involved in way too mant things that are none of its damned business.

And ignoring too many things that are it's responsibility.

--------------------
"Being deeply learned and skilled, being well trained and using well spoken words; this is good luck."


Edited by SwampFox (11/08/07 04:18 PM)


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: SwampFox]
      #125314 - 11/08/07 04:24 PM

SF, Helliberal ain't going to listen to you either he just thinks he knows everything and his way is the best way, which is to cede everything to the almighty government at albeit a slower pace than a liberal would. Frankly, I've lost my patience with Americans who constantly fear what more freedom would do and opt to stick with known failures the government provides

you want to start fixing healthcare, get the government out of it, if they want to take your money for Medicare, the least they can do is put it in your own account that you manage.

they want to offer you a retirement plan, then they can at least make social security a plan you are in charge of, that means they don't have access to your money anymore and that just scares the hell out of the Helliberal ilks of the world.

Sell a third of the National Forests and Helliberal claims it will kill land prices. I guarantee you that Helliberal moved to Missouri because he could no longer afford to live in Oregon, I guarantee it, he'll never admit to it, but I guarantee it.

Sell all the BLM lands, BLM reservoirs could do much better with some local control and local control is always better when private citizens own most of the land.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125337 - 11/08/07 05:22 PM

"So what is going to happen when the government dumps 322 million acres of land on the market? Even if it doesn't hit all at once it will destroy land prices for years."--HellRealtor

so you believe that artificially high land prices are good for the country and land prices closer to its actual worth is bad for the country?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hellbender
member
**

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County

Re: The perfect agenda [Re: SwampFox]
      #125363 - 11/08/07 07:05 PM

What are you saying Swampy? I can tell you that most of the grazing hasn't been stopped. I'm also aware of whats west of Denver, lived there, and a hell of a lot longer that the 15 months Rosie has lived there. I also lived and worked in a rural area, not a suburb. Worked in the Timber industry a couple of years and hunted all over the area.
Liberty buys a little spot with trees on it and wants the government to protect it for him.
So yeah, much of what Lib is feeding is Bullchit.
Selling the public land sure as hell won't make the government less powerful, in fact it will increase its power.

Quote:

Sell a third of the National Forests and Helliberal claims it will kill land prices. I guarantee you that Helliberal moved to Missouri because he could no longer afford to live in Oregon, I guarantee it, he'll never admit to it, but I guarantee it.





You're a clown Liberty, I owed 40 K on my place out there, and the taxes were very close to what they are here.

--------------------
A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Hellbender]
      #125370 - 11/08/07 07:29 PM

"I can tell you that most of the grazing hasn't been stopped. I'm also aware of whats west of Denver, lived there, and a hell of a lot longer that the 15 months Rosie has lived there. I also lived and worked in a rural area, not a suburb. Worked in the Timber industry a couple of years and hunted all over the area.
Liberty buys a little spot with trees on it and wants the government to protect it for him.
So yeah, much of what Lib is feeding is Bullchit.
Selling the public land sure as hell won't make the government less powerful, in fact it will increase its power."--Helliberal

all the places you are wrong

I don't live anywhere near the suburbs

Obviously I don't want the gubbamint to protect my land since I want them to sell their land, which oddly enough would actually go toward protecting it, since it would no longer be owned by an absentee landlord

who the hell cares that you worked in the timber industry and hunted on some land, you obviously never learned a damn thing while you were out here

Selling the government land will make the government more powerful, how exactly, private citizens get land, the government gets cash, which they will piss away immediately, the land will still be in the private citizen's hands

land is power, much more so than a highly liquid asset known as cash.

You obviously want the government to have the power, which they use to derive cash, rather than have them sell it and no longer have the power

sad really, how long were you a Democrat before you thought you were a Republican again

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHA!!!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125381 - 11/08/07 08:01 PM

try as you might old man it is impossible to paint me as a liberal when you are standing there with your federal government issue palette

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hellbender
member
**

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County

Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125416 - 11/08/07 09:36 PM

Quote:

I don't live anywhere near the suburbs




So you say.

Quote:

Selling the government land will make the government more powerful, how exactly, private citizens get land, the government gets cash, which they will piss away immediately, the land will still be in the private citizen's hands




You really think Americans will have enough capital to buy 322 million acres of land, especially considering that their collateral will be severely diminished?

Quote:

the government gets cash, which they will piss away immediately




On what? If the congress had the money they would install socialized health care tomorrow.

Quote:

the land will still be in the private citizen's hands





The majority won't. Where do most cooperations end up today when they are sold, more and more are going to foreign investors. Most of the land sold will go to Europeans and the Chinese.

Quote:

land is power, much more so than a highly liquid asset known as cash.



Yes it is, and while Americans will lose their capital due to a glut of land and the collateral many use for operating capital, foreign interest will move in.
I drive American vehicles, what do you drive Mr Self proclaimed expert?

--------------------
A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Hellbender]
      #125464 - 11/09/07 02:18 AM

you are a weasel, trying to make this about foreign trucks, such a dumbass.

well if you remember, and I know you don't because you're a belligerant dumb fork of a jackass old fart who never would acknowledge the very clear fact that I never once wanted the gubbamint to help me, you would remember that I said you sell it off in small parcels, 40, 80, 160, 320, 640 acres. You can make it undesirable for foreign corporations to buy it up.

But then again, we would be in your mess since the government got involved in owning way too much damn land, which is fine for liberals such as yourself, but it goes contrary to what conservatives like me think. Had the west been allowed to develop naturally, rather than in the cluster fork manner that it is developing due to absentee landlord ownership on more than half the land and thereby constricting the private market to where land costs more out here than in the east, yet we have more of it.

I know you don't care about freedom, you're too damn old to, you grew up post depression and thought everything the government did for you was just fine.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125465 - 11/09/07 02:21 AM

again the very clear point that my bringing this up in various forms simply points out the fact that a so-called conservative doesn't give a damn about freedom, after life it is the most important thing we have

and you'd just as soon piss on it rather than take a chance that something (freedom that has proven it works over and over)different might happen and oh fork someone might buy that 40-acre parcel there or that 640-acre piece over there and they might have an idea for their land that you don't agree with, well be bitter in your old age, America needs to sell of its overloaded land reserves


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125466 - 11/09/07 02:35 AM

Helliberal voted for Reagan

when Reagan was governor of California he said this...

"Do not be fooled by the special interest propagandists. We will maintain our redwood forests, but we will not give them to the Federal government without getting something of equal value in return, and we will not act in such a way as to endanger the economy of northwestern California counties.

We will make provision for maintaining our wilderness areas, but we will not blindly set aside huge tracts so they cannot be used to meet the recreational and industrial needs of our expanding population."


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125467 - 11/09/07 03:19 AM

and why would Reagan do this???

"1980 Sagebrush Rebellion

Shortly after he was elected in a landslide over President Jimmy Carter in 1980, Ronald Reagan sent a telegram to the "Sagebrush Convention" in Salt Lake City.

In the telegram President-elect Reagan sent "best wishes to all my fellow 'Sagebrush Rebels'" and gave the conventioneers some hope for a successful campaign to turn federal land over to more local control. Reagan wrote, "I renew my pledge to work toward a 'sagebrush solution.' My administration will work to ensure that states have an equitable share of public lands and their natural resources. To all, good luck and thanks for your support."

I guess Ronald was a liberal in your book too, huh Helliberal?


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125468 - 11/09/07 03:27 AM

more Reagan

"Today, we have reached a point where the growth of our forests exceeds the harvest. This has come about thanks to the continuing efforts of our Nation's forestry and natural resource schools, hundreds of trained foresters, and other resource specialists, working with private firms and local, State, and Federal agencies such as the United States Forest Service.

Through the success of sustained-yield forestry, Americans can enjoy the splendor of our Nation's woodlands, as well as benefit from an abundant supply of the numerous products that come from trees. The forests provide jobs for millions of people, and they afford a healthy environment for the many who take to the woods in their leisure time."

Reagan wasn't about leaving them alone, do you wish you didn't vote for him now

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHA!!!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125469 - 11/09/07 03:31 AM

then there's Michael Reagan...

"Why The Forests Burn - Making Sense

July 17, 2003

By Michael Reagan

Over 300 Arizona families are victims of terrorism, made homeless not by al Qaeda's terrorists, but instead, by our homegrown variety who masquerade under the banner of environmentalism while committing what amounts to arson in our nation's forests.

From opposition to genetic crops that could end starvation and famine in much if the third world, to so-called animal rights groups fighting against medical research that saves untold millions of lives, to groups such as Greenpeace, whose policies have resulted in destructive wild fires across the nation burning people houses to the ground, to antigrowth radicals who burn and dynamite new construction, the nation is under assault from our homegrown terrorists.

The blame for the destruction of millions of acres of forest land in the West is the direct result of the efforts of environmentalists such as Greenpeace -- they have prevented the Forest Service from doing the kind of maintenance that prevents wild fires.

That's not simply my opinion; it is also the opinion of the man who founded Greenpeace, Patrick Moore, a man now treated by his former allies in the environmentalist movement as if he were the Devil himself.

Moore states flatly that the scientific facts -- and just plain common sense -- that call for cleaning out dead trees and the accumulation of highly flammable debris on the forest floor are ignored by Greenpeace and their allies. Their attitude is let the trees burn.

Moore is outspoken about what the movement he founded has become. He blames the transformation of Greenpeace and the environmental movement into a far-left-wing crusade on the fall of the Berlin wall!

"Suddenly the international peace movement had a lot less to do. Pro-Soviet groups in the West were discredited. Many of their members moved into the environmental movement bringing with them their eco-Marxism. These factors have contributed to a new variant of the environmental movement that is so extreme that many people, including myself, believe its agenda is a greater threat to the global environment than that posed by mainstream society."

Calling the radical environmentalist movement "anti-democratic": Moore warns "The very foundation of our society, liberal representative democracy, is rejected as being too "human-centered." In the name of "speaking for the trees and other species" we are faced with a movement that would usher in an era of eco-fascism. The "planetary police" would "answer to no one but Mother Earth herself."

He adds that the movement is "anti-civilization. In its essence, eco-extremism rejects virtually everything about modern life. We are told that nothing short of returning to primitive tribal society can save the earth from ecological collapse. No more cities, no more airplanes, no more polyester suits. It is a naive vision of a return to the Garden of Eden."

It is left unsaid that this new and glorious Eden, of course, requires a radical reduction in the number of human beings allegedly overcrowding the surface of our beloved Mother Earth. How that reduction is to be achieved is not explained but widespread abortion that has killed over 40 million unborn Americans is a good start. So was the Clinton administration and UN failure to stop the slaughter of a million human beings in Uganda.

Think about it.

Now that the environmentalist terrorists are born and causing all this trouble, they want population control.

It's too bad we didn't have population control before they were born.

As the Muslim world in the Middle East support their terrorists, in the U.S. we support our terrorists, with Congress groveling before them and giving them just about everything they want, and millions of Americans contributing money to them some of which they use to burn Americans out of their homes.

Have we no sense?"


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hellbender
member
**

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County

Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125517 - 11/09/07 11:48 AM

Thanks Lib, once again you can't seem to find your arse. Most everything you just posted either backs what I've argued or takes exception with your ideas that lack forethought.

--------------------
A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Hellbender]
      #125545 - 11/09/07 01:11 PM

again proving you have the reading comprehension of a baboon's ass

Reagan wanted more local control

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

Michael Reagan rightly blamed the forest fire catastrophes on your friends in the whackjob environmentalist movement who you agree with, oh please mr. logger don't cut down a tree, then our forest might have a purpose

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Hellbender
member
**

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 3416
Loc: Taney County

Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125552 - 11/09/07 01:29 PM

Quote:

Sell a third of the national forests, cut a third of the employees





This another of your great ideas? Lets see, we cut the National Forest by 1/3rd, so we cut the FS employees by 1/3rd, but if, as you contend, they don't do the job with the employees they have, doesn't that keep the problem intact?

Quote:

Only keep dams where recreational and navigational uses of the waterway far outweigh the benefits that would be there if anadramous fish were allowed to prosper.




I suppose you're also an expert on that subject now. I believe thats the Greene's stance so you're back in your natural habitat.

Quote:

Cut farm subsidy




We can always get good healthy food from China.

Quote:

Increase free trade agreements.



Thats worked out well so far.

Quote:

encourage home power systems that are self-generating and self-sufficient




We could power them on ethanol. A corn field in every yard.
Quote:

Deport illegal aliens, make it a mandate for local jurisdictions





I think thats the law already.

Quote:

Privatize social security completely making it an option for new hires, a former government system allowed to exist if individuals choose to stay in it, others can opt out and invest their money on their own or through a system managed by the social security administration that allows choice of investments.




????????????

Quote:

Abolish Medicare, put in place medical savings accounts for the individual,




Great idea, the borrowing possibilities would make any true Democrat grin. They could do to it what they've done to SS.

Quote:

at least three more east-west routes and four more north-south routes,



Going where and why? Wouldn't it make more sense, and take less money to expand what we have. Three East west, coming from and going where??
More government spending, something you constantly harp against while coming up with ideas to gorge the treasury and the increase of government projects.

--------------------
A government survey has shown that 91% of illegal immigrants come to this country so that they can see their own doctor.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Hellbender]
      #125554 - 11/09/07 01:32 PM

" Deport illegal aliens, make it a mandate for local jurisdictions"

"I think thats the law already."--Helliberal

I take it you don't spend a lot of time in court as illegals are marched in on various DUI charges and are not sent back, simply fined for their infraction, it happens every day in America, when you ask a judge, they say that they are a local magistrate and that deporting them goes beyond their authority.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Liberty
member
*

Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 5796


Re: The perfect agenda [Re: Liberty]
      #125555 - 11/09/07 01:34 PM

" at least three more east-west routes and four more north-south routes,


Going where and why? Wouldn't it make more sense, and take less money to expand what we have. Three East west, coming from and going where??
More government spending, something you constantly harp against while coming up with ideas to gorge the treasury and the increase of government projects."--Helliberal

roads are important, and these would be paid for through tolls, something you conveniently left out.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | >> (show all)



Extra information
0 registered and 614 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  Jaeger 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 485

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us Return to Main Page

*
UBB.threads™ 6.5