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HB,

I've answered your questions thoroughly over and over jackass, and you and I both know that the fires burn brush too, but they also burn forests, which you are so far reluctant to admit, and I have explained to you in great detail what types of fires they had in Idaho, more than half of the fires in Idaho were burned through forested areas, you can continue to not answer the question if forests should be managed locally or nationally, but I already know you favor a distant bureaucracy because you are a liberal.

hillbilly many of these towns have been around since the 1860s, get your limited facts straight.

When a firestorm approaches, no matter what you do to mitigate your property you are in danger because the forest around you was not taken care of by its present owners. And they have a number of excuses, none of which that don't call for them to consider selling off land they can't take care of. Whole towns are threatened, think what you want, but I live out here and happen to know what the fork is going on. You live in Missouri and think you know. And when presented with the truth you reject out of hand based on an admitted limited knowledge.

Come back in a 100 years, like that is possible.

Here's an example of how you are wrong from SOS Forests

"Take Mann Gulch, for example. In 1949 a forested canyon on the Missouri River 20 miles north of Helena burned in the fire that also killed 13 firefighters. In his famous book about the Mann Gulch Fire, Young Men And Fire, author Norman Maclean doesn?t discuss the vegetation much. There is this passage, however:

In the formal description of the Report of Board of Review:? At the point of origin of the fire the fuel type consisted of a dense stand of six- to eight-inch Douglas fir and some ponderosa pine on the lateral ridges.?

But it was a different type of fuel on the north side, where the crew was now on its way to the river. ?At the point of disaster the tree cover consisted of stringers of scattered young ponderosa pine trees with occasional overmature ponderosa pine trees. The ground cover or understory which predominated was bunch grass with some cheat grass.? Essentially the north side of Mann Gulch was rocky and steep with a lot of grass and brush and only a scattering of trees. The south side was densely timbered.

Maclean?s photos bear out his descriptions of Mann Gulch. Some were agency photos taken before the Mann Gulch Fire, some immediately after, and some twenty years later. The post-fire photos clearly show pine trees killed by the fire. The pictures from 1969 show no living trees. Maclean had this to say after he visited the site in the 1980?s:

Now, almost forty years later, small trees have just started to grow along the bottoms of dry finger gulches on the hillside in Mann Gulch, where moisture from rain and snow are retained underground. Since even now these little evergreens are only six to eight inches high, the grass has to be parted to find them?

This summer, 58 years later, Mann Gulch burned again. Whatever tiny trees had survived from the 1980?s were fried. What was once forested is now de-treed permanently. The canyon adjacent to Mann Gulch, Meriwether Canyon, was not burned in 1949 but did burn this summer. The dense thicket of ponderosa pine and Douglas-fir cooked completely, as if Meriwether Canyon had been a giant pottery kiln."

here you have a perfect example that when a firestorm goes through it changes the landscape forever, those trees only started growing back some 30 years later and before they got to be of any size they were burned again.

In Idaho, this year, firefighters thought that old burns would slow the fires, they didn't, the old burns got nuked along with the new burns. This fairy tale about fires regenerate the forest is exactly that, a fairy tale told by people so you can rest easy at night, in the meantime property values plummet and recreational values within these areas diminish for generations. HB wants his kids to enjoy the forests, that's a fine goal, unfortunately he has cast his lot with the forest service and through mismanagement there are several forests that can no longer be described as such.

You want to talk about responsibility of the land owners, well here's one that needs to take responsibility for their land land you happen to own a piece of and here you give them a pass while attacking your fellow citizens out of your own ignorance.

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